When a customer burns you.

Mon Dec 1 15:21:50 PST 2003

I expect this will eventually make it to the list without the
HTML attachment (eg. when the unpaid postmaster has the time to
check the mail that's queued for manual intervention).

In the meantime, below covers a great way to end all chance of
settling the problem without court and opens up the opportunity
for them to look it for slander (one of the exceptions to free
speech).

I much prefer ms chalup's method of working with the person
in accounting to settle it.  The next step: Legal redress.
Just filing is often enough to motivate them to settle (jeeze,
$partner, it's going to cost us about as much to fight this, plus
we're on the hook for his expenses if we lose; let's just pay this
legit bill and be done with it.)

Vendetta marketing doesn't work really well for long term business
in an area.

Quoting richard childers / kg6hac (fscked at pacbell.net):
> Michael,
> 
> While I understand where Chuck is coming from, in erring on the side of 
> the angels, I have a different perspective. It is one that gets me into 
> hot water, now and then.
> 
> It is my understanding that I have freedom of speech.
> 
> I feel that it is my obligation to use it, where required, to inform the 
> public about a situation that it is in the public's interest to know about.
> 
> <cynicism>
> 
> I know, I know, talking about responsibilities is absurd. We Americans 
> only have rights; we do not have responsibilities, to ourselves, or even 
> to one another. 'Constitution' is just a hard word on the spelling test, 
> it doesn't actually -mean- anything.
> 
> </cynicism>
> 
> Bluntly: if no one did anything wrong, there is nothing wrong with 
> discussing it, publically (we leave the logical complement as an 
> exercise for the reader).
> 
> Let that be your mantra.
> 
> It is at the heart of every sunshine statute ever written. It is what 
> criminals, and bullies, fear - publicity, and the resultant 
> coordination, and actualization, of their victims, as they realize that 
> they all have something in common.
> 
> 
> Of course, it gets stickier with lawyers trying to put a spin on your 
> every syllable, and trying to snowball everything into enough money so 
> that they can profit from someone's pain.
> 
> You need to structure your actions in such a way as to protect your 
> assets, so that your liability does not become your company's liability. 
> How to do this is a separate topic.
> 
> Lawyers are expert at saying what they mean without accruing any 
> liability; study how they manipulate the record. Never suggest someone 
> is lying; that's defamation. Instead, suggest that you do not know that 
> they are telling the truth. This is a factually true statement. So long 
> as you focus on your current interpretation of the event and rely upon 
> objective elements to support your conclusions, you are in the realm of 
> personal freedom to articulate to others your true internal state. If 
> you, personally, cannot distinguish between a person's actions, and what 
> you know, objectively, to be criminal conduct, then that is the other 
> person's lookout; they have crossed the line of civil public behavior 
> and are legitimate targets for public scrutiny. Scrutinize 'em.
> 
> Sure, there are people who abuse this. They are called lawyers - and 
> they make their living, usually, by misrepresenting the truth. Some of 
> them are pretty cocky, and if you pay attention to small details, you 
> might get lucky and help get one of them disbarred, for life. That would 
> be a valuable bonus, and all of California would thank you. You could 
> paint a little logo on your fender - I suggest a shark with the 
> universal red circle and slash, indicating negation.
> 
> If you avoid adjectives and adverbs and stick to demonstratable facts 
> you're on solid ground, to the best of my knowledge. You can make it 
> solider by standing up for your rights instead of letting people walk 
> all over you, and setting an example that others will follow.
> 
> By putting the spotlight on crooked individuals you are doing yourself 
> and everyone else a favor.
> 
> Let me put my money where my mouth is:
> 
>    http://www.craigslist.org/sfc/cps/19982617.html
> 
> 
> ... And now, I need to carry an Amazon in training upstairs, so we can 
> go watch Barney.
> 
> <shudder>
> 
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Richard Childers / Senior Engineer
> Daemonized Networking Services
> https://www.daemonized.com
> (415) 759-5571
> 
> 
> Chuck Yerkes wrote:
> 
> >Quoting Michael T. Halligan (michael at halligan.org):
> > 
> >
> >>I've recently quit a project due to a customer's inability
> >>to pay me on time.  They still have a $15k outstanding debt
> >>to me (billable hours to me, and billable hours of subcontractors
> >>whom I've already paid).  They have money, that's no doubt, so
> >>I'll probably have a good leg to stand on in court.  it's sad
> >>I have to do that.      
> >>
> >>They informed me they were looking for a new contractor to
> >>"finish the job", and have already called up one of my subcontractors
> >>trying to get them to go in and do the work.  My guys aren't
> >>that stupid, but how can I inform other contractors about the risks
> >>of working with this company? What channels are available?
> >>   
> >>
> >
> >You likely want to have a chat with a lawyer.
> >
> >You're way over any Small Claims.
> >When I was in film and doing smaller computer stuff
> >(couple days here and there), we'd use "mechanics liens"
> >with customers that were slow (read 6 months) in paying.
> >They come from, clearly, Mechanics who'd do work on a piece
> >of machinery and not get paid.
> >
> >
> >As for informing about risks, you want to steer clear of perceived
> >slander/libel issues which could cost you in the long run.  If they
> >contend they aren't paying you due to missed deadlines, then telling
> >someone that they aren't paying could be construed, by some lawyer,
> >in ways that could harm you and your case.