Leroy, Oracle, etc

Mon Jul 14 02:37:41 PDT 2003

On Sat, Jul 12, 2003 at 05:51:30PM -0700, richard childers / kg6hac wrote:
> "Larry Ellison, CEO of Oracle, is one of the leading proponents of a 
> national ID card system. Oracle, the world's largest database vendor, 
> owes its very existence to a Central Intelligence Agency contract 
> awarded it in the 1970s. In September 2001, Ellison told San Francisco 
> television station KPIX, "We need a national ID card with our photograph 

The fact that Ellison is a big proponent of a hyper-invasive government
(whether because he's a fascist or because his corporation would greatly
benefit from it) is not at question.

But really, that's not enough to claim any sort of collusion between Oracle
and the CIA.

I find it much more interesting that, for example, David Carey, former Exec
Director of the CIA (#3 person in the agency) is apparently a VP at Oracle
now; looks like there's at least one other (Sidney Fuchs), but
realistically, given how tightly Oracle works with the government and how
many of their products the government (and the CIA uses), it's not a huge
surprise that some CIA officers would end up working at Oracle.  Next up:
Web publishing software organization employes web publishers.

> I think there's a lot of rot in Silicon Valley; don't kid yourself. Rot 
> and perception management go hand in hand. One can't paint over a rotten 
> step and expect it to go unnoticed, for example.

You're very interested in 'perception management,' aren't you?

>    Duties and Responsibilities of Directors and Officers
>            Professor Robert Baxt
>   
> It has chapters addressing one's duties to act honestly and to avoid 
> conflicts of interest, as well as duties to act with care and due 
> diligence. It was a year or so out of date. And it was published by the 
> Australian Institute of Company Directors. Apparently the closest source 
> of these sorts of educational materials was, say, 8,000 miles away.

Don't be silly.  I got my education on the duties and responsibilities of
senior management from my boss, who was one of the most ethical people I
know.  Hell, I'd argue if you need to turn to a book to know how to behave
as a manager, you're working in a pretty screwed up organization.

Further, I'll point out that you're making an asinine claim -- one entity
chose to source a product from another country and therefore the only
source for such product was another country? 

Hint:  Search for 'Ethical Management' on amazon.  There are 269 matches,
including 
the Power of Ethical Management
Defining Moments: When Managers Must Choose Between Right and Right 
Managing by Values 
The Ethical Process: An Approach to Disagreements and Controversial Issues
Case Studies in Business Ethics (4th Edition) 

And, well, approximately 264 others, not all of which are relevant but a
good chunk of which are.

> (For instance, did you notice the bit about the Oracle Legal Department 
> legal professional who sued Oracle because, she alleged, they had 
> required her to do something unethical ... whose lawsuit was sealed 
> against public scrutiny? I happen to personally know that is true, and 
> can personally support the authenticity of that story.)

Yeah, but -- and I mean no offense here, of course -- your word isn't
exactly worth anything here.  It's not that I think you're a liar, or that
I trust you less than any other random posters to this mailing list that
have posted only on two topics, within a short time period and have never been
heard from before -- it's just that I (and I suspect others, though they
may be more polite than I and so won't say it) trust you only as much as I
trust other random posters to this mailing list that have only posted on
two topics ... well, you see where this is going.  Who are you? What is
your lineage? Do I know anyone who knows you and thinks you're trustworthy?
If not, you're just a noise on the net -- and there's a whole bunch of
that.  

> By the way, the description, by another person, of how Cisco's sales 
> force aggressively started calling not just him but everyone around him, 
> calling into question his judgement for wanting to evaluate other 
> vendors' products, is eerily similar to the tactics described in the 
> posting (which I assume you have not yet read). I see no reason to 
> assume that this phenomenon, if true, has confined itself to a single 
> company.

Big companies, especially ones that are big enough to behave like 800lb
gorillas, behave like 800lb gorillas.  

This is not news to anyone, I think.  Cisco does it.  I'll betcha Oracle
does it.  We know Microsoft does it.  Intel's done it.  We know.

> >>Yours for a workplace free of coercion, fraud, and racism ...
> >
> >These are laudable goals.  Any interest in adding "hyperbole" to this
> >list?
> 
> Maybe. I'm not sure I've exaggerated anything; I've reported on the 
> existence of a story whose truth (or lack thereof) is of interest to 
> everyone in Silicon Valley, especially those holding Oracle stock.

You're pushing/promoting a story rife with hyperbole.  As such, you cannot
avoid tying our perceptions of you with our perceptions of the story (and
its author) to a certain degree.  

-roy