[Fwd: BOUNCE chat at baylisa.org: Not addressed to list; likely spam taboo body match "/<html>/i" at line 160 taboo body match "/<!--.*-->/" at line 249]
Strata R Chalup
strata at virtual.net
Wed Jun 23 13:15:39 PDT 2004
[Resend, as baylisa-chat at baylisa.org is not a mailing list here,
it's chat at baylisa.org...]
Richard,
Please stop accusing Rick of "deliberately blocking" your specific posts.
As I said to you in the previous bounce message I forwarded you,
showing the message itself, if the mailing list is in the CC list
rather than the TO field, it gets tagged as likely spam and forwarded
for moderator approval.
If you would like to become a member of BayLISA, I would be happy to
make YOU a co-moderator of baylisa-chat so that you can approve posts
in a timely fashion. Otherwise, please stop with the 'censorship'
ranting.
thanks,
Strata
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: BOUNCE chat at baylisa.org: Not addressed to list; likely spam taboo body match "/<html>/i" at line 160 taboo body match "/<!--.*-->/" at line 249
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 12:26:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: owner-chat at baylisa.org
To: chat-approval at baylisa.org
>From strata Wed Jun 23 12:26:11 2004
Received: from smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com (smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com [66.163.168.187])
by www.baylisa.org (8.12.11/8.12.11) with SMTP id i5NJOBtm015104
for <baylisa-chat at baylisa.org>; Wed, 23 Jun 2004 12:24:11 -0700 (PDT)
Received: from unknown (HELO pacbell.net) (fscked at pacbell.net@67.120.105.111 with plain)
by smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 23 Jun 2004 19:24:10 -0000
Message-ID: <40D9D852.4070306 at pacbell.net>
Date: Wed, 23 Jun 2004 12:21:54 -0700
From: richard childers / kg6hac <fscked at pacbell.net>
Reply-To: fscked at pacbell.net
Organization: Daemonized Networking Services - http://www.daemonized.com
User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; WinNT4.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax)
X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: Rick Moen <rick at linuxmafia.com>
CC: baylisa-chat at baylisa.org, baylisa at baylisa.org, postmaster at baylisa.org
Subject: Re: Sex discrimination by organizations, cabals, and has-beens
References: <20040619225337.GT8293 at linuxmafia.com> <40D70EB8.1080205 at pacbell.net> <20040621223709.GB8293 at linuxmafia.com> <40D84141.6070000 at pacbell.net> <20040622165158.GO8293 at linuxmafia.com>
In-Reply-To: <20040622165158.GO8293 at linuxmafia.com>
Content-Type: multipart/alternative;
boundary="------------000702060505040901050104"
This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
--------------000702060505040901050104
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Rick,
Thank you for notifying me that you have recommended that the BayLISA
Board of Directors bar me for ever and ever and ever. I am trembling in
my Birkenstocks, at the mere thought.
If I wanted to, I could, of course, re-subscribe, under another name.
Email addresses aren't just cheap; they are free. There's little of
value, though ... outside of contact with a peer group, that
occasionally has aspects that make it resemble a lynch mob. I don't want
to stoop to fraud in order to defeat fraudulent behavior - I've found
explaining to people, in writing, why I won't have anything to do with a
specific individual, is much more effective.
If I want to, I can join the group, directly, under a pseudonym, or
organizational name. I can even join under my own name, watch your
organization refuse the membership, and use it all as fodder for public
discussion of public policy. You are a public organization, after all.
The rules that control your organization's conduct are public policy.
Maybe your organization's conduct violates some law somewhere ... maybe
not. Maybe it did when you engaged in the behavior, but the law isn't on
the books any more, and so you're not seeing the law that I saw.
Maybe you only searched codes and neglected to search departmental
regulations; or case histories. I'm not obligated to teach you anything
about legal research; particularly under the current circumstances.
The fact is, it's not going to make -you-, or the leadership, or the
organization, or the acronym 'LISA' look very professional, to be
associated with such a question - regardles of the answer. I predict the
Bay Area LISA leadership will be replaced. High time, in my opinion.
If I want to, I can write an article about the events, quote the emails,
and link it with the current main story at www.orafraud.org, as one
illustration of the sort of abuse I've been on the receiving end of. If
no one cares, why, then, you have nothing to worry about, because no one
will bother reading. Right?
The fact is that you can't handle criticism. When faced with it you
resort to interfering with channels of communication. I have a
legitimate objection to that.
Each time I Cc: my response to this debate to chat-baylisa at baylisa.org,
it is blocked by your pathetic cabal. That's the fact.
That's a loser's approach - because it broadcasts, to everyone, your
cabal's fear that you cannot win the debate when it is conducted openly,
and must resort to distorting policies against ad hominem attacks, in
favor of engaging in your own attacks, while preventing a free
discussion of issues that reflect poorly upon the leadership.
Perhaps you're wondering if I have the original emails. It's likely that
you do not; and that is an indicator of how well the board of directors
manages their responsibilities ... isn't it? You're not even sure what
the Subject: of the messages were ... never mind the contents. Heh, heh.
I am utterly unimpressed by your recommendations. Your own personal
conduct, as well as the conduct of the group you represent - with a few
exceptions, here and there - has been more suggestive of a bunch of tin
horn dictators, than it is of people who understand democratic process,
respect its operation, and value the opinion of the loyal opposition.
Dubious regards,
-- richard
Rick Moen wrote:
>Quoting richard childers / kg6hac (fscked at pacbell.net):
>
>
>
>>If you wish to leap to conclusions, that's your lookout.
>>
>>
>
>Wait, are you saying you _can_ support your allegation of fact? No?
>Make up your mind.
>
>I do have a tentative conclusion: That you pulled that assertion (about
>what it's supposedly illegal for BayLISA to do) strictly out of
>/dev/ass, based on negligible acquaintance with applicable statutes.
>If you have evidence to the contrary, I'll be glad to hear it -- but
>won't be holding my breath, since I _have_ researched that body of law.
>
>Meanwhile, I have suggested to the Board that you be summarily dropped
>from babelisa, partly to (again) enforce that mailing list's membership
>policy, and partly because it's just a bad idea to let BayLISA be
>pushed around by cranks -- let alone ones who've _never even bothered_
>to become BayLISA members.
>
>The Board may or may not care enough to even consider my suggestion, let
>alone act on it -- we really have more important things to do -- but now
>might be a really good time for you to provide that legal citation, in
>the almost unfathomably unlikely event of your having anything
>substantive to say on the subject.
>
>
>
--
Richard Childers / Senior Engineer
Daemonized Networking Services
945 Taraval Street, #105
San Francisco, CA 94116 USA
[011.]1.415.759.5571
http://www.daemonized.com
-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD)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=ZaJO
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
--------------000702060505040901050104
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN">
<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html;charset=ISO-8859-1">
<title></title>
</head>
<body text="#000000" bgcolor="#ffffff">
Rick,<br>
<br>
<br>
Thank you for notifying me that you have recommended that the BayLISA
Board of Directors bar me for ever and ever and ever. I am trembling in
my Birkenstocks, at the mere thought.<br>
<br>
If I wanted to, I could, of course, re-subscribe, under another name.
Email addresses aren't just cheap; they are free. There's little of
value, though ... outside of contact with a peer group, that
occasionally has aspects that make it resemble a lynch mob. I don't
want to stoop to fraud in order to defeat fraudulent behavior - I've
found explaining to people, in writing, why I won't have anything to do
with a specific individual, is much more effective.<br>
<br>
If I want to, I can join the group, directly, under a pseudonym, or
organizational name. I can even join under my own name, watch your
organization refuse the membership, and use it all as fodder for public
discussion of public policy. You are a public organization, after all.
The rules that control your organization's conduct are public policy.<br>
<br>
Maybe your organization's conduct violates some law somewhere ... maybe
not. Maybe it did when you engaged in the behavior, but the law isn't
on the books any more, and so you're not seeing the law that I saw.<br>
<br>
Maybe you only searched codes and neglected to search departmental
regulations; or case histories. I'm not obligated to teach you anything
about legal research; particularly under the current circumstances.<br>
<br>
The fact is, it's not going to make -you-, or the leadership, or the
organization, or the acronym 'LISA' look very professional, to be
associated with such a question - regardles of the answer. I predict
the Bay Area LISA leadership will be replaced. High time, in my opinion.<br>
<br>
If I want to, I can write an article about the events, quote the
emails, and link it with the current main story at <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="http://www.orafraud.org">www.orafraud.org</a>, as
one illustration of the sort of abuse I've been on the receiving end
of. If no one cares, why, then, you have nothing to worry about,
because no one will bother reading. Right?<br>
<br>
<br>
The fact is that you can't handle criticism. When faced with it you
resort to interfering with channels of communication. I have a
legitimate objection to that.<br>
<br>
Each time I Cc: my response to this debate to <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:chat-baylisa at baylisa.org">chat-baylisa at baylisa.org</a>,
it is blocked by your pathetic cabal. That's the fact.<br>
<br>
That's a loser's approach - because it broadcasts, to everyone, your
cabal's fear that you cannot win the debate when it is conducted
openly, and must resort to distorting policies against ad hominem
attacks, in favor of engaging in your own attacks, while preventing a
free discussion of issues that reflect poorly upon the leadership.<br>
<br>
<br>
Perhaps you're wondering if I have the original emails. It's likely
that you do not; and that is an indicator of how well the board of
directors manages their responsibilities ... isn't it? You're not even
sure what the Subject: of the messages were ... never mind the
contents. Heh, heh.<br>
<br>
<br>
I am utterly unimpressed by your recommendations. Your own personal
conduct, as well as the conduct of the group you represent - with a few
exceptions, here and there - has been more suggestive of a bunch of tin
horn dictators, than it is of people who understand democratic process,
respect its operation, and value the opinion of the loyal opposition.<br>
<br>
<br>
Dubious regards,<br>
<br>
-- richard<br>
<br>
<br>
Rick Moen wrote:<br>
<blockquote type="cite" cite="mid20040622165158.GO8293 at linuxmafia.com">
<pre wrap="">Quoting richard childers / kg6hac (<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:fscked at pacbell.net">fscked at pacbell.net</a>):
</pre>
<blockquote type="cite">
<pre wrap="">If you wish to leap to conclusions, that's your lookout.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<pre wrap=""><!---->
Wait, are you saying you _can_ support your allegation of fact? No?
Make up your mind.
I do have a tentative conclusion: That you pulled that assertion (about
what it's supposedly illegal for BayLISA to do) strictly out of
/dev/ass, based on negligible acquaintance with applicable statutes.
If you have evidence to the contrary, I'll be glad to hear it -- but
won't be holding my breath, since I _have_ researched that body of law.
Meanwhile, I have suggested to the Board that you be summarily dropped
from babelisa, partly to (again) enforce that mailing list's membership
policy, and partly because it's just a bad idea to let BayLISA be
pushed around by cranks -- let alone ones who've _never even bothered_
to become BayLISA members.
The Board may or may not care enough to even consider my suggestion, let
alone act on it -- we really have more important things to do -- but now
might be a really good time for you to provide that legal citation, in
the almost unfathomably unlikely event of your having anything
substantive to say on the subject.
</pre>
</blockquote>
<br>
<pre class="moz-signature" cols="65">--
Richard Childers / Senior Engineer
Daemonized Networking Services
945 Taraval Street, #105
San Francisco, CA 94116 USA
[011.]1.415.759.5571
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.daemonized.com">http://www.daemonized.com</a>
-----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (FreeBSD)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=ZaJO
-----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
</pre>
</body>
</html>
--------------000702060505040901050104--
--
========================================================================
Strata Rose Chalup [KF6NBZ] strata "@" virtual.net
VirtualNet Consulting http://www.virtual.net/
** Project Management & Architecture for ISP/ASP Systems Integration **
=========================================================================
More information about the Baylisa
mailing list