From asah at wonderlan.midgard.net  Thu May  1 00:52:37 2003
From: asah at wonderlan.midgard.net (Adam Sah)
Date: Thu, 01 May 2003 00:52:37 -0700
Subject: job posting: IT contractor for Addamark Technologies
Message-ID: <20030501075237.D517E10CC7@wonderlan.midgard.net>

We're looking for an IT contractor for the following opportunity:
- Part time, either half days or 2 days a week.
- Local to downtown SF, i.e. so office visits aren't a big deal
- Reliable, dependable
- We have an email+web based work queue system already up (based on bugzilla)
  i.e. we can make sure work items make sense before assigning
- We're well-known to the baylisa/midgard/kabuki folks, and can provide
  numerous references that we're (a) technically clueful, (b) reasonable
  people and (c) pay our bills on time and without hassle.

Skills needed:
  - Linux
  - Basic networking (route, dhcp, named, ssh, wireless)
  - apache
Nice-to-have skills:
  - Solaris, Windows (light desktop, outlook and printing support for 2K,XP)
  - Advanced Linux networking (iptables, iproute2, cbq, qos)
  - Kickstart
  - mysql, bugzilla

Background
   My company's IT needs have outgrown our early-startup approach of using
   internal resources combined with occasional contracts, and we now need 
   someone to "take ownership" for IT, if only part-time.  Although nobody's
   saying it yet, it's my prediction (as co-founder+CTO+board member) that
   this job will quickly become full-time if sales continue their ascent.
   Reliability is really key here-- we need someone who won't flake or
   "disappear" and not respond to emails.  OTOH, we have numerous techies and
   friends-of-the-company who can fill in technical gaps.

About Addamark Technologies
 - Location: downtown SF, convenient from bay bridge, caltrain, 280, 101.
   two blocks from montgomery BART.
 - Funded by first-tier venture capital firms, household-name customers.
 - For more information: http://www.addamark.com/
 - Principals only, no recruiters and we mean it.
 - Please send resumes to itstarneeded at addamark.com

adam


From david at catwhisker.org  Fri May  2 19:37:28 2003
From: david at catwhisker.org (David Wolfskill)
Date: Fri, 2 May 2003 19:37:28 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: New mailing lists @baylisa.org
Message-ID: <200305030237.h432bSe4023783@bunrab.catwhisker.org>

OK; a recent thread on baylisa-jobs@ was enough to finally get me
to send out this notice.

We have some new mailing lists at baylisa.org; here's what majordomo's
"lists" command returns now:

>>>> lists
Majordomo at baylisa.org serves the following lists:

  babelisa                BayLISA list for women system administrators
  baylisa                 BayLISA Main List, used for BayLISA broadcast issues
  baylisa-announce        Anouncements of interest to the BayLISA community
  baylisa-jobs            BayLISA Jobs, rules at www.baylisa.org/mlists.html
  baylisa-jobs-chat       discussion list for employment-related topics
  baytest                 Test list, please ignore
  blw                     BayLISA board mailing list, closed
  chat                    informal, unmoderated list for the BayLISA community
  eblisa                  East BayLISA formation list, idle, closed
  managers                BayLISA list for discussion of sysadmin-management issue
  rsvp                    BayLISA RSVP Automated Responder
  services-tf             BayLISA "Services task force" (infrastructure)
  test                    David's test list

Use the 'info <list>' command to get more information
about a specific list.

[end of "lists" output]

Please, let us use these lists appropriately.

In particular, now that both chat@ and baylsia-jobs-chat@ exist, we
should be able to tighten down baylisa-jobs@ to be restricted to
positions (whether W-2 or 1099) available or wanted.

Please?

Thanks,
david           (current hat: postmaster at baylisa.org)
-- 
David H. Wolfskill				david at catwhisker.org
Based on what I have seen to date, the use of Microsoft products is not
consistent with reliability.  I recommend FreeBSD for reliable systems.


From Phil_Rufin at trendmicro.com  Mon May  5 09:53:08 2003
From: Phil_Rufin at trendmicro.com (Phil_Rufin at trendmicro.com)
Date: Mon, 5 May 2003 09:53:08 -0700
Subject: Usability Testers needed
Message-ID: <C15A0A2E871EB04A9F46F213D3EDA81974CCA1@65-200-113-17.trendmicro.com>

Hi David,

Kindly post this invite to BAY LISA
Thanks
Phil

Currently, development is underway on our latest product. As part of our development process, we would like to invite 8 participants in an upcoming usability test on May 19 and 20, 2003. The test takes about 90 minutes, during which time we will ask them to use the product and they will provide us their opinion on the ease of use, designs, features, and look & feel. 

Tester's profile:

Eight system administrators from medium and large companies and Application Service Providers: 

o Experience/job focus implementing corporate messaging and corporate antivirus, antispam and content filtering to insure security of their corporate computing environment

o System administrators that use either InterScan Messaging Security Suite or InterScan Virus Wall that focus on SMTP messaging 

o A mix of Unix, Linux, and NT administrators desired

o Experience/job focus on gateway messaging strongly preferred

o Experience/job focus on medium-to-large business messaging environments acceptable. For examples: Exchange or Notes administrators, Unix or Linux systems administrators that focus on messaging/security

Please note that the test will be conducted at:

Trend Micro, Inc. office 

3rd floor, 10101 North De Anza Blvd.

Cupertino, CA 95014

To express our gratitude for their participation, we are offering a $100 remuneration to the participants who complete the test; transportation expenses will not be covered.

Note: Must be 18+ to sign a non-disclosure agreement (NDA). 

If you are interested and meets the tester's profile, contact me at phil_rufin at trendmicro.com <mailto:phil_rufin at trendmicro.com> or call 1-800-307-5336 (enter extension number: 6337).

Sincerely,

Phil

Teofilo Monge Rufin, Jr., Ph.D.
Technical Writer/Usability Testing Coordinator
Trend Micro Inc.
10101 North De Anza Blvd 
Cupertino, CA 95014
Tel. No: 1-408-863-6337 (direct)
Cell Phone No: 1-408-316-8903
Fax. No: 1-408-863-6534
Email: <mailto:phil_rufin at trendmicro.com>
Website: http://www.trendmicro.com/



From email4alans at yahoo.com  Wed May  7 17:39:41 2003
From: email4alans at yahoo.com (Alan Stewart)
Date: Wed, 7 May 2003 17:39:41 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: FYI - CyberSecurity - 2003 Conference
Message-ID: <20030508003941.84620.qmail@web21203.mail.yahoo.com>

To Baylisa Members: Please be advised of the CyberSecurity - 2003 Conference, co-hosted by the San Francisco and Silicon Valley Chapters of ISSA & the San Francisco Bay Area InfraGard, which is proudly presenting 21 of today?s top Security experts. This conference is occuring on May 20th. Alan StewartBAYLISA Treasurer  From: Nancy Bianco [mailto:nbianco at ssh.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 2:43 PM
To: email4alans at yahoo.com; aub at infoqualis.com; alb at infoqualis.com
Subject: FW: ISSA-InfraGard Security Conference 

Here is the info. Please distribute to your members.

Thanks,

Nancy

Cyber Security 2003 - Completing the Security Picture
Where Law, Technology and Business Converge
Crowne Plaza - Foster City, CA

http://www.CyberSecurity2003.com <http://www.cybersecurity2003.com/>May 
20, 2003


What drives the Security Picture today? How will you keep up?
On May 20th you are invited to join us at the CyberSecurity - 2003 
Conference, co-hosted by the San Francisco and Silicon Valley Chapters of 
ISSA & the San Francisco Bay Area InfraGard, as we proudly present 21 of 
today?s top Security experts. The Conference will officially open with 
keynote speaker, George Vinson, Director of California?s Homeland 
Security Office. Other keynote speakers include Tom Berson, Author and 
Stanford Scientist. Paul Clark, Chief Security Officer - EDS and Robert 
Lemos, Senior Security Writer CNET. (for a complete list of presenters and 
the schedule visit http://www.CyberSecurity2003.com 
<http://www.cybersecurity2003.com/>) 

ISSA and InfraGard have gathered together security thought leaders to 
present you with the most comprehensive perspective of today?s Security 
picture from four ?Security Topic? Tracks: 
? Track 1 - Legal 
? Track 2 - Business Initiatives & Security Awareness 
? Track 3 - Emerging Technologies 
? Track 4 - Policy, Standards and Risk

These tracks provide a snapshot of the dynamic and ever changing nature 
of today?s Security landscape that we, as Security Practitioners, face. 

GET YOUR QUESTIONS ANSWERED

The four ?Security Topic? Tracks will answer the questions you are 
currently asking yourself. Like?

? What are the CyberChallenges facing me and my organization today?

? How do I make sense out of this barrage of security information 
hitting my desk daily? 

? What are my legal responsibilities and liabilities? How does the 
Patriot Act affect me and my company?

? What are the latest security technologies out there and which are 
critical for my company?

? Which security policies and standards does my company need?

? How do I define ROSI so I can intelligently sell my Security 
requirements to management?

? How does IT Security fit into my company?s Risk Management picture?

? What is the latest technology available to help me determine if my 
company?s Security is being compromised? and many many more?
CyberSecurity 2003 The Ultimate Security Networking Opportunity
? Meet our Exhibitors/Sponsors - Over 30 of the Security Industry?s top 
Technology Providers demonstrating their products and services
(to see a list of our Sponsors and Exhibitors, visit our web site 
<http://www.cybersecurity2003.com/>)

? Discuss the future of Security Technology with many of the 300 Bay 
Area CIO?s, CSO?s, CISO?s, CEO?s and IT Security Professionals who will 
be attending from the private and public sectors 

? Attend our complimentary Cocktail Reception, where you will meet and 
talk to the CEO?s and CIO?s who are developing global Security 
Solutions for the future 

? Meet and Network with your next client(s)




CYBERSECURITY 2003 - CONFERENCE BACKGROUND

The CyberSecurity 2003 Conference is a partnership between the Bay Area 
community?s most respected organizations for Security Professionals - 
ISSA Silicon Valley & San Francisco and The San Francisco Bay Area 
InfraGard. The combined membership represents the Who?s Who of the Bay 
Area?s Security talent with company affiliations ranging from Fortune 500 
Corporations to independent Security Consultants. The Conference is 
driven by the vision that these organizations share: the commitment to 
provide the Bay Area Security Professional with the most comprehensive and 
up to date educational opportunities available.

For more information and to register for CyberSecurity 2003 - 
Completing the Security Picture
go to our Conference web Site <http://www.cybersecurity2003.com/>

ISSA BACKGROUND
Silicon Valley & San Francisco Chapters

The Information Systems Security Association (ISSA)? is an 
international, not-for-profit, volunteer organization providing educational forums, 
publications and peer interaction opportunities that enhance the 
knowledge, skills and professional growth of its members Information Security 
professionals. The primary goal of ISSA is to promote best practices 
that will ensure availability, integrity and confidentiality of 
organizational resources. ISSA's membership continues to grow with Information 
Security professionals representing a diversity of organizations, 
including major U.S. and international corporations, leading consulting 
firms, world-class educational institutions, and government agencies. 
To contact ISSA San Francisco Chapter go to 
<http://www.issa.org/san_francisco/index.htm>
To contact ISSA Silicon Valley Chapter go to <http://www.sv-issa.org/> 
Membership applications are available Online and will be available at 
the door. 


SAN FRANCICSO BAY AREA INFRAGARD BACKGROUND

San Francisco Bay Area InfraGard is a partnership between the U.S. 
Government (led by the FBI and the NIPC) and an association of businesses, 
academic institutions, state and local law enforcement agencies, all 
dedicated to increasing the security of the United States critical 
infrastructures.
San Francisco Bay Area InfraGard?s goal is to enable the flow of 
information to support owners and operators of infrastructure assets to 
better protect themselves and thus enable the United States government in 
discharging its law enforcement and national security responsibilities.
The San Francisco Bay Area InfraGard Chapter is a partnership with the 
FBI San Francisco Field Office. 
Contact San Francisco Bay Area InfraGard at: 
www.sfbay-InfraGard.org <http://www.sfbay-infragard.org/>Membership 
applications are available Online and will be available at the door. 
Membership is Free 

CyberSecurity 2003 - Conference Details

Hours 
7 a.m. - 7 p.m.

Location 
Crowne Plaza, Foster City, CA (for directions go to 
http://www.CyberSecurity2003.com <http://www.cybersecurity2003.com/>,)
SPECIAL ACCOMMODATIONS ISSA DISCOUNT
ISSA has reserved a Block of Hotel Rooms for our Guests
Stay 5/18 & 5/19 for $129.00/night (Usual Rate $200.00)
For Reservations 1-800-2CROWNE
(Use CODE ISS)
Registration includes breakfast, lunch, afternoon refreshments and 
attendance at the Cocktail Reception


Registration Fee
$50.00 member 
$75.00 non-member 

VOLUME DISCOUNT OPPORTUNITY
Blocks of 5 or more $60.00/ea

We accept - Master Card, Visa, Discover, American Express and personal 
checks


How to Register

Online to our Web Site <http://www.cybersecurity2003.com/>

www.cybersecurity2003.com <http://www.cybersecurity2003.com/>By Fax : 
Go to our Web Site and Print out the Online Registration Form, then Fax 
to ISSA 925-798-2643

To Contact Us : email - information at CyberSecurity2003.com 


650 533-5360 Mobile

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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Thu May  8 12:34:03 2003
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Thu, 8 May 2003 12:34:03 -0700
Subject: Upcoming BayLISA meeting (in one week)
Message-ID: <20030508193403.GL17227@linuxmafia.com>

Make a note on your calendar for the third-Thursday BayLISA meeting, a
_week from today_, on Thursday, May 15.  (The third Thursday may feel
early this month:  That's because May 1 was a Thursday.)

Jim Nisbet of Tablus
will talk about the _other_ aspect of firewalls -- how to use them to 
keep confidential data from being freely transmitted from the inside to
the outside world.  Post-911 regulations such as Sarbanes-Oxley, GLBA,
and SB1386 now require corporations to take reasonable steps to protect
sensitive information.

Jim will discuss the technical, corporate-policy, and legal aspects of
this new and vital problem.

We start at 7:30 but it's fine to be there early.
            - Apple's "De Anza Building Three", Cupertino
	    - just south of DeAnza and Mariani
            - easiest to enter the parking lot from Mariani (north
              of our entrance, go around) or from the east/antibayward
              side of the De Anza divider (you can make a U-turn at ...
              I think it's Latimer, unless you were already headed north
              at the time, in which case, it's your clue to pay attention.)

Don't forget your wallet if you want to take us up on the membership special,
join as a member without the special, or buy pint glasses and t-shirts.

There will be snacks and sodas, and other drinks.

Be seeing you!

-- 
Cheers,                    I've been suffering death by PowerPoint, recently.
Rick Moen                                                     -- Huw Davies
rick at linuxmafia.com  


From michael at halligan.org  Mon May 12 00:36:57 2003
From: michael at halligan.org (Michael T. Halligan)
Date: Mon, 12 May 2003 00:36:57 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: eRserver for postgres?
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0305120036210.15269-100000@arrakis.halligan.org>

One of my customers is using postgres, and is considering
shelling out the $10k for eRserver.. I was wondering if
anybody has any experience/opinions on it? 

-------------------
Michael T. Halligan
Chief Geek
Halligan Infrastructure Designs.
2250 Jerrold Ave #11
San Francisco, CA 94124
(415) 824.4453 - Home/Office



From extasia at extasia.org  Tue May 13 14:12:52 2003
From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban)
Date: Tue, 13 May 2003 14:12:52 -0700
Subject: [baylisa] SIG-BEER-WEST this Saturday 5/17 in San Francisco
Message-ID: <20030513141252.A3221@gerasimov.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1


SIG-beer-west
Saturday, May 17, 2003 at 6:00pm
San Francisco, CA

Beer.   Mental stimulation.

This event: 
  * Saturday, 05/17/2003, 6:00pm, at the Toronado, San Francisco

Coming events (third Saturdays): 
  * Saturday, 06/21/2003, 6:00pm
  * Saturday, 07/19/2003, 6:00pm
  * Saturday, 08/16/2003, 6:00pm
  * Saturday, 09/20/2003, 6:00pm

San Francisco's next social event for computer sysadmins and their
friends, sig-beer-west, will take place on Saturday, May 17, 2003 at
the [1]Toronado in San Francisco, CA.  The Toronado has an impressive
selection of [2]draught and [3]bottled beer.  Festivities will start
at 6:00pm and continue until we've all left.  The Toronado has an
excellent selection of beer, but no food.  It is perfectly okay to
score food from neighboring establishments and bring it back to the
Toronado to eat.  Also, after we are all full with beer we may roam
off to a nearby restaurant.

     [1] http://www.toronado.com/
     [2] http://www.toronado.com/draft.htm
     [3] http://www.toronado.com/bottles.htm

Everyone is welcome at this event.  We mean it!  Please feel free to
forward this information and to invite friends, co-workers, and
others who might enjoy lifting a glass with interesting folks from
all over the place.  (O.K., you do have to be of legal drinking age to
attend.) 

For directions to the Toronado, please use the [4]excellent
directions at their website.  When you show up at the Toronado, you
should look for some kind of botched sig-beer-west sign.  We will try
to make it obvious who we are. :-)

     [4] http://www.toronado.com/map.htm

Note:  Check the tables in the back room for us if you don't see us
       at the tables by the bar.  The back room is back and to the left.

Can't come this month?  Mark your calendar for next month. 
sig-beer-west is always on the third Saturday of the month.

Any Comments, Questions, or Suggestions of Things to Do Later on That
Evening ... email [5]Fiid or [6]David.

     [5] fiid-AT-fiid=DOT=net
     [6] extasia-AT-extasia=DOT=org

There is now a sig-beer-west mailing list.  To subscribe, send an
email with "subscribe" in the body to <sig-beer-west-request at fiid.net>.

sig-beer-west FAQ

1.  Q: Your announcement says "computer sysadmins and their
       friends".  How do I know if I'm a friend of a computer
       sysadmin?  I don't even know what one is.

    A: You're a friend of a computer sysadmin if you can find the
       sig-beer-west sign at this month's sig-beer-west event.

2.  Q: I'm not really a beer person.  In fact I'm interested in
       hanging out, but not in drinking.  Would I be welcome?

    A: Absolutely!  The point is to hang out with fun, interesting
       folks.  Please do join us.

3.  Q: Is parking difficult around the Toronado, like maybe I should
       factor this into my travel time?

    A: Yes.
______________________________________________________________________

sig-beer-west was started in February 2002 when a couple Washington,
D.C. based systems administrators who moved to the San Francisco Bay
area wanted to continue a [7]dc-sage tradition, sig-beer, which is
described in dc-sage web space as:

  SIG-beer, as in "Special Interest Group - Beer" ala ACM, or as in
  "send the BEER signal to that process".

  The original SIG-beer gathering takes place in Washington DC,
  usually on the first Saturday night of the month.

     [7] http://www.dc-sage.org/
______________________________________________________________________

Last modified:  $Date: 2003/05/03 20:53:52 $

- -- 
Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.
                                 ***
Come to sig-beer-west!     http://www.extasia.org/sig-beer-west/
Unix sysadmin available:   http://www.extasia.org/resume/


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From star at starshine.org  Thu May 15 08:09:37 2003
From: star at starshine.org (Heather Stern)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 08:09:37 -0700
Subject: BayLISA tonight, 15 May, 7:30 pm
Message-ID: <20030515150937.GA732@starshine.org>


  Hello fellow sysadmins.  This is a reminder that the BayLISA - Silicon
  Valley and San Francisco greater bay area large installation system
  administrators - meets tonight, because tonight is the 15th of May and 
  happens to be Third Thursday.

  I realize that our normal jobs normally lead us to have no idea what
  the outside sky is like, but any of you into astronomy might like
  the axtra tidbit that there is expected to be a brilliantly visible
  lunar eclipse tonight, approx 7-11 pm Pacific.  If any of you have 
  systems that are susceptible to moon phases, make an extra backup or
  something, it's a full moon on steroids :D

  Okay, now for the meeting itself:
	WHEN -	7:30 pm announcements start.  Arriving early is ok.
		Speaker usually stops about 9:30 pm, 
		Q&A winds down about 10 pm.

	WHERE - Apple Campus' De Anza Building Three
		10500 North De Anza	(north of Stevens Creek)
		see http://www.baylisa.org/locations/current.html

	WHO -	Jim Nisbet from Tablus, Inc.

	WHAT -	Intellectual Property Firewalls: Can They Help Keep Your
		Secrets Safe?

		Given the political climate around IP anyway, this ought 
		to be a lively meeting ...

  Also, we have a membership special going:
	YOU ARE - Either a current or past individual member of BayLISA
	BRING -	Someone who has never been a member of BayLISA before to 
		join BayLISA with an annual individual membership.
	YOU GET - One year's renewal added to your membership. 

  I look forward to seeing everyone there! 
    
-* Heather Stern * Arch (secretary) BayLISA Board * http://www.baylisa.org/ *-


From aub at coldstone.com  Thu May 15 14:49:42 2003
From: aub at coldstone.com (Alberto Begliomini)
Date: Thu, 15 May 2003 14:49:42 -0700
Subject: CyberSecurity 2003
Message-ID: <3EC40B76.9030704@coldstone.com>


Cyber Security 2003 - Completing the Security Picture
Where Law, Technology and Business Converge
Crowne Plaza - Foster City, CA
May 20, 2003



Download our CyberSecurity 2003 Brochure -
http://www.CyberSecurity2003.com <http://www.cybersecurity2003.com/>

What drives the Security Picture today? How will you keep up?

On May 20th you are invited to join us at the CyberSecurity - 2003
Conference, co-hosted by the San Francisco and Silicon Valley Chapters
of ISSA & the San Francisco Bay Area InfraGard, as we proudly present 21
of today?s top Security experts. The Conference will officially open
with keynote speaker, George Vinson, Director of California?s Homeland
Security Office. Other keynote speakers include Tom Berson, Author and
Stanford Scientist. Paul Clark, Chief Security Officer - EDS and Robert
Lemos, Senior Security Writer CNET.
(for a complete list of presenters and the schedule visit:
http://www.cybersecurity2003.com/conferenceschedule/conferenceschedule.html) 




ISSA and InfraGard have gathered together security thought leaders to
present you with the most comprehensive perspective of today?s Security
picture from four ?Security Topic? Tracks:

?Track 1 -Legal
?Track 2 -Business Initiatives & Security Awareness
?Track 3 -Emerging Technologies
?Track 4 -Policy, Standards and Risk


These tracks provide a snapshot of the dynamic and ever changing nature
of today?s Security landscape that we, as Security Practitioners, face.

GET YOUR QUESTIONS ANSWERED

The four ?Security Topic? Tracks will answer the questions you are
currently asking yourself. Like?

?What are the CyberChallenges facing me and my organization today?
?How do I make sense out of this barrage of security information hitting
my desk daily?
?What are my legal responsibilities and liabilities? How does the
Patriot Act affect me and my company?
?What are the latest security technologies out there and which are
critical for my company?
?Which security policies and standards does my company need?
?How do I define ROSI so I can intelligently sell my Security
requirements to management?
?How does IT Security fit into my company?s Risk Management picture?
?What is the latest technology available to help me determine if my
company?s Security is being compromised?
         and many many more?

CYBERSECURITY 2003  -  THE ULTIMATE NETWORKING OPPORTUNITY

?Meet our Exhibitors/Sponsors - Over 30 of the Security Industry?s top
Technology Providers demonstrating their  products and services
?Discuss the future of Security Technology with many of the 300 Bay Area
CIO?s, CSO?s, CISO?s, CEO?s and IT Security Professionals who will be
attending from the private and public sectors
?Attend our complimentary Cocktail Reception, where you will meet and
talk to the CEO?s and CIO?s who are developing global Security Solutions
for the future
?Meet and Network with your next client(s)
         (See our Sponsors and Exhibition Partners at:
http://www.cybersecurity2003.com/sponsor-exhibitors/sponsors-exhibitors.htm)

CyberSecurity 2003 - Conference Details

Hours
7 a.m. - 7 p.m.

Location
Crowne Plaza, Foster City, CA
Directions:(http://go.vicinity.com/sixcont/bidMap.d?BID=SFOFC&brandname=_crowneplaza,)
SPECIAL ACCOMMODATIONS ISSA DISCOUNT
ISSA has reserved a Block of Hotel Rooms for our Guests
Stay 5/18 & 5/19 for $129.00/night (Usual Rate $200.00)
For Reservations 1-800-2CROWNE
(Use CODE ISS)
Registration includes breakfast, lunch, afternoon refreshments and
attendance at the Cocktail Reception

Registration Fee
$50.00 member
$75.00 non-member

VOLUME DISCOUNT OPPORTUNITY
Non Members - Purchase Blocks of 5 or more for only $60.00/ea - a $75.00
savings!

We accept - Master Card, Visa, Discover, American Express and personal
checks

How to Register
Online At Web Site - http://www.CyberSecurity2003.com
<http://www.cybersecurity2003.com/>
By Fax : Use Registration Form on Web Site - Fax to ISSA 925-798-2643
To Contact Us : send us an email - info at CyberSecurity2003.com



CYBERSECURITY 2003 - CONFERENCE BACKGROUND

The CyberSecurity 2003 Conference is a partnership between the Bay Area
community?s most respected organizations for Security Professionals -
ISSA Silicon Valley & San Francisco and The San Francisco Bay Area
InfraGard. The combined membership represents the Who?s Who of the Bay
Area?s Security talent with company affiliations ranging from Fortune
500 Corporations to independent Security Consultants. The Conference is
driven by the vision that these organizations share: the commitment to
provide the Bay Area Security Professional with the most comprehensive
and up to date educational opportunities available.

For more information and to register for CyberSecurity 2003 - Completing
the Security Picture go to our Conference web Site
http://www.cybersecurity2003.com <http://www.cybersecurity2003.com/>


ISSA BACKGROUND
Silicon Valley & San Francisco Chapters

The Information Systems Security Association (ISSA)? is an
international, not-for-profit, volunteer organization providing
educational forums, publications and peer interaction opportunities that
enhance the knowledge, skills and professional growth of its members
Information Security professionals. The primary goal of ISSA is to
promote best practices that will ensure availability, integrity and
confidentiality of organizational resources. ISSA's membership continues
to grow with Information Security professionals representing a diversity
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To contact ISSA Silicon Valley Chapter go to http://www.sv-issa.org/
Membership applications are available Online and will be available at
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Contact San Francisco Bay Area InfraGard at: www.sfbay-InfraGard.org
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Membership applications are available Online and will be available at
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From alvin at maggie.linux-consulting.com  Fri May 23 21:45:26 2003
From: alvin at maggie.linux-consulting.com (Alvin Oga)
Date: Fri, 23 May 2003 21:45:26 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: licensed electrical contractors
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1030523213958.12773B-100000@Maggie.Linux-Consulting.com>


hi ya

does anybody have a particular electrical contractor
they like that have added power panels for your offices ??? 

- i'd like to add some individually metered 110v ac outlets
  in the office areas ( open areas ) to the main power panel of
  the bldg
	- i would like to drop say 6-10 4-plug outlets
	w/ the building owner's permission 

- i understand the power meter is about $100 or so ...

thanx
alvin







From extasia at extasia.org  Sat May 24 10:10:16 2003
From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 10:10:16 -0700
Subject: [baylisa] Reinstall python?
Message-ID: <20030524101016.A13681@gerasimov.net>

Greetings!

I think I may need to (re-)install python and mailman to get mailman
working on a red hat 9 box.  Anyone think, based on the info below,
that this is not the case?  Should I use rpms?  Or would it be better
to "configure && make && make test && make install"?  

I inherited a brand new mailman installation on a red hat 9 box to
which I have access via ssh.  I have root on the box.

I'm trying to start mailman, and am getting:

  $ /etc/init.d/mailman start
  Traceback (most recent call last):
    File "/var/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 524, in ?
      main()
    File "/var/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 319, in main
      check_privs()
    File "/var/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 274, in check_privs
      gid = grp.getgrnam(mm_cfg.MAILMAN_GROUP)[2]
  KeyError: getgrnam(): name not found

I get a similar error when running ~mailman/bin/check_perms:

  Traceback (most recent call last):
    File "bin/check_perms", line 51, in ?
      MAILMAN_GID = grp.getgrnam(MAILMAN_GROUP)[2]
  KeyError: getgrnam(): name not found

I found <http://www.mail-archive.com/mailman-users at python.org/msg17390.html>,
which says:

  You can try for yourself by running Python from the command line as
  follows [...]

    [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/mailman/run/bin> python
    Python 2.2.2 (#3, Feb 11 2003, 16:57:53)
    [GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (SuSE)] on linux2
    Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more
    information.
    >>> import paths
    >>> from Mailman import mm_cfg
    >>> from Mailman.mm_cfg import MAILMAN_USER, MAILMAN_GROUP
    >>> print MAILMAN_USER, MAILMAN_GROUP
    mailman mailman
    >>> import grp
    >>> MAILMAN_GID = grp.getgrnam(MAILMAN_GROUP)[2]
    >>> print MAILMAN_GID
    18
    >>> import sys
    >>> sys.exit()
    [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/mailman/run/bin>

I try the above.  As soon as I type "import paths" and hit ENTER, I get:

  Traceback (most recent call last):
    File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
  ImportError: No module named paths

Umm...  At this point I (who have no experience with python) am
beginning to think there's something wrong with the python
installation.  Or is this a case analogous to when perl's @INC array
isn't set properly?

Thanks!
David
-- 
Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.
                                 ***
Come to sig-beer-west!     http://www.extasia.org/sig-beer-west/
Unix sysadmin available:   http://www.extasia.org/resume/
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From rsr at inorganic.org  Sat May 24 14:49:26 2003
From: rsr at inorganic.org (Roy S. Rapoport)
Date: Sat, 24 May 2003 14:49:26 -0700
Subject: [baylisa] Reinstall python?
In-Reply-To: <20030524101016.A13681@gerasimov.net>
References: <20030524101016.A13681@gerasimov.net>
Message-ID: <20030524214926.GC676@nag.inorganic.org>

I became a Python fanatic about a month or so ago (coming from Perl), so
I'm enthusiastic but clueless -- keep this in mind when you read my
response.

On Sat, May 24, 2003 at 10:10:16AM -0700, David Alban wrote:
>     File "/var/mailman/bin/mailmanctl", line 274, in check_privs
>       gid = grp.getgrnam(mm_cfg.MAILMAN_GROUP)[2]
>   KeyError: getgrnam(): name not found

That's actually not a Mailman/Python issue, but a Mailman configuration
issue.  It's not telling you that Python can't find the getgrnam
function, but rather that getgrnam is not able to find the group database entry for the entry that mm_cfg.MAILMAN_GROUP is pointing to.  In other words, the 
MAILMAN_GROUP variable in your mm_cfg.py or Defaults.py files has set does not
correspond to a UNIX group name on your system.

Can you verify whether this is, in fact, correct?

>     [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/mailman/run/bin> python
>     Python 2.2.2 (#3, Feb 11 2003, 16:57:53)
>     [GCC 2.95.3 20010315 (SuSE)] on linux2
>     Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more
>     information.
>     >>> import paths
>     >>> from Mailman import mm_cfg
>     >>> from Mailman.mm_cfg import MAILMAN_USER, MAILMAN_GROUP
>     >>> print MAILMAN_USER, MAILMAN_GROUP
>     mailman mailman
>     >>> import grp
>     >>> MAILMAN_GID = grp.getgrnam(MAILMAN_GROUP)[2]
>     >>> print MAILMAN_GID
>     18
>     >>> import sys
>     >>> sys.exit()
>     [EMAIL PROTECTED]:/mailman/run/bin>
> 
> I try the above.  As soon as I type "import paths" and hit ENTER, I get:
> 
>   Traceback (most recent call last):
>     File "<stdin>", line 1, in ?
>   ImportError: No module named paths
> 
> Umm...  At this point I (who have no experience with python) am
> beginning to think there's something wrong with the python
> installation.  Or is this a case analogous to when perl's @INC array
> isn't set properly?

I'm not sure what the person who wrote the original stuff is trying to
do, but I note that 'paths' is not a standard Python module (see
http://www.python.org/doc/current/modindex.html).  os.path *is*.  On my
UNIX system with a perfectly (ha!) functioning Mailman install, I get
the same error you do -- no module named paths -- which makes perfect
sense.

For me, this code fragment works todo what they seem to want to do:
[first, cd to the directory containing mm_cfg.py, probably
PREFIX/Mailman]
---
23 nag /usr/local/mailman/Mailman # python
Python 2.2.2 (#2, Apr 10 2003, 15:36:19) 
[GCC 3.2.2] on sunos5
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from mm_cfg import *
>>> print MAILMAN_USER, MAILMAN_GROUP
mailman mailman
>>> import grp
>>> print grp.getgrnam(MAILMAN_GROUP)[2]
105
>>> ^D
---

So I think you're probably not really SOL -- my guess is you just need
to tweak mm_cfg.py (or, technically, Defaults.py, though you should use
mm_cfg.py).

Two last notes, and this is where I veer away from factual information
and into editorializing:

A) Python is way cool, and I find that *ONCE I GOT USED TO IT*, its
error messages and stack traces became my favorite for an easy way to
figure out how something went wrong.  However, initially getting that
stack trace just scared me a little and made me go "Agh! What the hell
happened?"

B) Mailman is way cool, and I find that *ONCE I GOT IT WORKING*, it
worked like a beauty.  I find that, unfortunately, it doesn't
necessarily always fail gracefully and usefully -- in the above example,
for example, it was possible to write the code in a way that would trap
the error and report something useful ("Hi! Did you set your
MAILMAN_GROUP variable?"), but, well, they didn't. 

-roy



From jake at digicamp.com  Sun May 25 18:07:42 2003
From: jake at digicamp.com (Jake Fahnert)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 18:07:42 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dedicated server hosting?
Message-ID: <1530.66.92.48.200.1053911262.squirrel@mail.digicamp.com>

Greetings!

I'm new to the list, so I hope it's ok to ask this type of question
here.

I'm starting up a project, and I need a place to host a few servers.  I'd
rather lease some servers, but most of the places I've checked out seem
to have rather high prices, for slow intel hardware.  We're running a
postgres db, and apache-2.0.45 with php & mod_perl, to do some pretty
heavy updates & selects for an application we're building, so speed is
important.. We're probably going to push out about 5megabit/s sustained.

Does anybody have a place they've used before, that they can refer me to?

Thanks for your time,

Jacob

@===========================@
Linux and Windows Systems Administrator






From jake at digicamp.com  Sun May 25 18:11:13 2003
From: jake at digicamp.com (Jake Fahnert)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 18:11:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dedicated server hosting?
Message-ID: <1548.66.92.48.200.1053911473.squirrel@mail.digicamp.com>

Greetings!

I'm new to the list, so I hope it's ok to ask this type of question
here.

I'm starting up a project, and I need a place to host a few servers.
I'd rather lease some servers, but most of the places I've checked out
seem to have rather high prices, for slow intel hardware.  We're running
a postgres db, and apache-2.0.45 with php & mod_perl, to do some pretty
heavy updates & selects for an application we're building, so speed is
important.. We're probably going to push out about 5megabit/s sustained.

Does anybody have a place they've used before, that they can refer me
to?

Thanks for your time,

Jacob

@===========================@
Linux and Windows Systems Administrator





From michael at halligan.org  Sun May 25 19:05:16 2003
From: michael at halligan.org (Michael T. Halligan)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 19:05:16 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dedicated server hosting?
In-Reply-To: <1548.66.92.48.200.1053911473.squirrel@mail.digicamp.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0305251900210.31022-100000@arrakis.halligan.org>

Jake,

I'm not sure if it's what you're looking for, but I'm starting a new
dedicated hosting company.  We're going "live" June 1st, but already
have a few customers (mainly customers of mine I've been hosting.
We sell rackspace for $50/U and bandwidth for $125/mbit. We've got
a couple of 100mbit pipes from different providers.  I'll attach our
"standard marking text" so you can get some pricing.

Our website is at www.bigserverhosting.com, but we're still putting
everything into our templates (my partner wrote it in a non-english
language, now I get to help him translate.. fun fun) so the attachment
is the better source of information..

Check it out, and send me an email, we might be able to work something out.



-------------------
Michael T. Halligan
Chief Geek
Halligan Infrastructure Designs.
http://www.halligan.org/
2250 Jerrold Ave #11
San Francisco, CA 94124-1012
(415) 824.4453 - Home/Office
(415) 724.7998 - Mobile

Option one : 

Athlon XP 2200 
512MB DDR PC3200
40GB mirrored storage
Remote Reboot
Remote Serial Console Access
Includes weekly backups, with daily incremental backups, of up to 30GB,
stored for 2 weeks (at any given time you can access 3 weeks worth
of backups)

Price: $160/mo including 1Mbp/s (324GB of download) $100 setup

Option two : 

Athlon XP 2200 
1024MB DDR PC3200
80GB mirrored storage
Remote Reboot
Remote Serial Console Access
Includes weekly backups, with daily incremental backups, of up to 50GB, 
stored for 2 weeks (at any given time you can access 3 weeks worth of backups)
Price: $200/mo including 1Mbp/s (324GB of download) $100 setup


Athlon XP 2200 
2048MB DDR PC3200
120GB mirrored storage
Remote Reboot
Remote Serial Console Access
Includes weekly backups, with daily incremental backups, of up to 100GB, stored for 2 weeks 
(at any given time you can access 3 weeks worth of backups)
Price: $220/mo including 1Mbp/s (324GB download) $100 setup


- Extra Bandwidth is $125/mbits (324GB download). 


---------------
* Notes: All Servers come with hardware raid in a raid-1 configuration.  This means if a hard-drive
fails, we can just reboot it into the second hard drive with no data loss and rather minimal
downtime.

All servers come with dual ethernet adapters. The second ethernet adapter, by default, is used on
a private subnet (each customer gets their own private subnet) for administrative purposes such
as backups and software/configuration updates. If your application is very database or storage
intensive, there are options to rent out high-performance file-servers/database servers and have
a secure, private, dedicated connection to them over this subnet.

All backups are done onto a large, redundant RAID-5 file server, which in itself is backed up to tape
nightly




From alvin at maggie.linux-consulting.com  Sun May 25 22:50:36 2003
From: alvin at maggie.linux-consulting.com (Alvin Oga)
Date: Sun, 25 May 2003 22:50:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dedicated server hosting?
In-Reply-To: <1548.66.92.48.200.1053911473.squirrel@mail.digicamp.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1030525223121.15566A-100000@Maggie.Linux-Consulting.com>


hi ya jake

name the price range you wanna pay, and oyu can find
people that will fit that budget

name the "SLA" you want, and/or tech support proficiency
and you eliminate lots of possible vendors ??
	- tech support will be a major key if you
	need your servers to stay up and running ...

5Mbps .. sustained .. you've eliminated lots of the
smaller webhosting outfits ( and you're now looking for real colos )

- i say, watch out for those "overselling" of the same bandwidth
  gazillion times over

c ya
alvin

- from my poking around last few weeks..
	level3		$ 900 full rack + $800 for 5Mbps 
	he.net		$ 400 full rack + $100 for 1Mbps ( $400/5Mbps)
	layer42		$ 500 full rack w/ 1Mbps
	...
	uu.net		used to be good .. till mci took over
			and is now a giant mess, though they
			still carry 25% of the worlds traffic

	and you can get either level3 or he.net for lot less if you go
	"shopping" around

	(bankrupt) above.net is now mfn.net
	(tinkering on bk) cogent.net was/is the old psi.net

- major pops/naps
	http://www.navigators.com/isp.html   ( good stuff )
 	http://www.micro-colo.net/POP.gifs/


On Sun, 25 May 2003, Jake Fahnert wrote:

> Greetings!
> 
> I'm new to the list, so I hope it's ok to ask this type of question
> here.
> 
> I'm starting up a project, and I need a place to host a few servers.
> I'd rather lease some servers, but most of the places I've checked out
> seem to have rather high prices, for slow intel hardware.  We're running
> a postgres db, and apache-2.0.45 with php & mod_perl, to do some pretty
> heavy updates & selects for an application we're building, so speed is
> important.. We're probably going to push out about 5megabit/s sustained.
> 
> Does anybody have a place they've used before, that they can refer me
> to?
> 



From michael at halligan.org  Mon May 26 00:23:31 2003
From: michael at halligan.org (Michael T. Halligan)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 00:23:31 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dedicated server hosting?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1030525223121.15566A-100000@Maggie.Linux-Consulting.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0305260009550.31755-100000@arrakis.halligan.org>

= name the price range you wanna pay, and oyu can find
= people that will fit that budget
= 
= name the "SLA" you want, and/or tech support proficiency
= and you eliminate lots of possible vendors ??
= 	- tech support will be a major key if you
= 	need your servers to stay up and running ...
= 

Agreed. Uptime costs money, and requires experience.

Look out for companies that dont' offer 24x7 support.  I just pulled
one of my customers off of another unnamed small hosting company, who's
idea of 24x7 support was "the owner of the company was also the network
engineer and sometimes he'd answer his pager when the network was down
at 2am) .. It really bothers me, because you can run a fairly reliable
datacenter by having 2-3 fairly people in 8-10 hour shifts, and one or
two people to do phone support/tech support who'd otherwise be making
minimum wage at some store.

Another problem I've run into is offshored tech support.  Sure it looks
good on paper, but when it's 3am and I'm trying to tell somebody my
network is down, and his/her accent is so heavy I have to ask them to
repeat some things 6-7 times, well I wouldn't call  that quality 
customer support. 

= 5Mbps .. sustained .. you've eliminated lots of the
= smaller webhosting outfits ( and you're now looking for real colos )
= 
= - i say, watch out for those "overselling" of the same bandwidth
=   gazillion times over
 
True.. I won't mention names, but I've moved several of my consulting customers
to various facilities, to get away from them.  The most common scam seems to be
a provider buying a 50-100mb link from cogent (because it's cheap) and then getting
a small link, like 10-20mb from wiltel or someone "a couple of steps" above cogent, and
then banking on the fact that most customers won't use their alloted bandwidth..

I'm just trying to offer good prices by leveraging a lot of usage.
You'd be surprised what kind of prices you can get by finding another
hosting company, and saying "hey, let's get our bandwidth together under
one account" .. When you're both doing 75mb/s, and decide to just go
and get a 200mb link from a provider together and allocated half & half,
you end up saving money.

Personally I get capped bandwidth, so I can plan things better, and I
provision speed to my customers, and allow them to monitor their usage
and plan their needs with cricket.


= - from my poking around last few weeks..
= 	level3		$ 900 full rack + $800 for 5Mbps 
= 	he.net		$ 400 full rack + $100 for 1Mbps ( $400/5Mbps)
= 	layer42		$ 500 full rack w/ 1Mbps

Layer42 seems pretty cool. I used to work with a guy there, Steve Rubin,
and he definately knows what he's doing.  If I wasn't giving it a go
at starting my own thing, I'd host with him. Last I talked to him, they're
doing alright too.. Worth checking out.

= 	uu.net		used to be good .. till mci took over
= 			and is now a giant mess, though they
= 			still carry 25% of the worlds traffic
= 
= 	and you can get either level3 or he.net for lot less if you go
= 	"shopping" around

Level3 is pretty pricey last time I called them.  Nice facilities though. 

= 	(bankrupt) above.net is now mfn.net
= 	(tinkering on bk) cogent.net was/is the old psi.net

Forget cogent.   If you want routing problems, or if you want to get hosted on
ip ranges that are black listed, then you go with cogent.  They're cheap, their
peering blows, and they have a huge spam problem.  If you just needed a point
to point between datacenters for nas/db server replication, then they're a very
economical option though.


= - major pops/naps
= 	http://www.navigators.com/isp.html   ( good stuff )
=  	http://www.micro-colo.net/POP.gifs/

Another option is to go with a carrier hotel, like equinix.  I'm at
e200paul (exchangecolo) in san francisco, mainly because it's in san
francisco.. I'd rather be in equinix, but I don't have the time or the
constitition to spend time in the south bay, otherwise that's where
I'd host.  At a carrier hotel you pretty much (over)pay for space, and
negotiate the pricing with bandwidth providers yourself, provide your
own hardware, and manage your own routing .. 

A rather odd side-effect I've found with carrier hotels is
networking.. The people kind.  Since moving into e200paul, I've gained
4 new clients from people basically walking up to me and asking me
questions.. Carrier hotel sales people seem to be into networking a lot too,
and usually know the sales rep that everybody is buying hardware from for
X vendor, and that gives you some more buying leverage.  



-------------------
Michael T. Halligan
Chief Geek
Halligan Infrastructure Designs.
http://www.halligan.org/
2250 Jerrold Ave #11
San Francisco, CA 94124-1012
(415) 824.4453 - Home/Office
(415) 724.7998 - Mobile



From alvin at maggie.linux-consulting.com  Mon May 26 01:41:38 2003
From: alvin at maggie.linux-consulting.com (Alvin Oga)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 01:41:38 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dedicated server hosting?  -- good stuff
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0305260009550.31755-100000@arrakis.halligan.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1030526013437.17234B-100000@Maggie.Linux-Consulting.com>


hi ya michael

nice to get feedback .... yuppers... i agree on all points
( even nicer when its "thats what i see too" )

but, my sillyness, tells me i want to be able to drive up to
the "whacky box" withing 30min of me finding out its not
responding ...
	- i dont like other people playing with my servers

and since i dont need much bandwidth... i rather host it 
locally in my office :-) .. a good t1 is way better than a colo ..
until ...
	- if power goes out... oh well ... take the time
	off to go goof off i guess

	- luckily, santa clara and palo alto has their own power
	and doesn't rely on PGE's silly russian roullette with
	its power management ... and summer is here ..

> Agreed. Uptime costs money, and requires experience.

.. yuppers ..

experience on those looking for colo space too ... :-)

c ya
alvin 



From michael at halligan.org  Mon May 26 01:48:35 2003
From: michael at halligan.org (Michael T. Halligan)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 01:48:35 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dedicated server hosting?  -- good stuff
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1030526013437.17234B-100000@Maggie.Linux-Consulting.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0305260145190.32482-100000@arrakis.halligan.org>

On Mon, 26 May 2003, Alvin Oga wrote:

= hi ya michael
= 
= nice to get feedback .... yuppers... i agree on all points
= ( even nicer when its "thats what i see too" )
= 
= but, my sillyness, tells me i want to be able to drive up to
= the "whacky box" withing 30min of me finding out its not
= responding ...
= 	- i dont like other people playing with my servers

I know the feeling :)  I prefer clusters of redundant, well managed
servers, and as much remote-hands as possible.. I'd rather bring
a box off line and take a performance hit in a cluster, than have
an unknown noc person touch my boxen.


= and since i dont need much bandwidth... i rather host it 
= locally in my office :-) .. a good t1 is way better than a colo ..
= until ...
= 	- if power goes out... oh well ... take the time
= 	off to go goof off i guess
= 
= 	- luckily, santa clara and palo alto has their own power
= 	and doesn't rely on PGE's silly russian roullette with
= 	its power management ... and summer is here ..

I'm envious with you on that. The only nice thing I remember
about living in Santa Clara was cheap, reliable power bills. During
the power mismanag.. err 'energy crisis" I never lost power.. Now
I live in an industrial section of town in sf, and pay something like
$500 per month in power, and it's somewhat spotty :/


= > Agreed. Uptime costs money, and requires experience.
= 
= .. yuppers ..
= 
= experience on those looking for colo space too ... :-)

Yeah.  The worst part about searching for colo/hosting is when
you don't know what questions to ask.. I've worked for several
hosting companies, and a ton of other "non-hosting" companies,
so I know generally what I'm looking for.. But I find a lot of
people who just go with whatever their pricerange is not knowing
any better.


-------------------
Michael T. Halligan
Chief Geek
Halligan Infrastructure Designs.
http://www.halligan.org/
2250 Jerrold Ave #11
San Francisco, CA 94124-1012
(415) 824.4453 - Home/Office
(415) 724.7998 - Mobile



From alvin at maggie.linux-consulting.com  Mon May 26 02:27:27 2003
From: alvin at maggie.linux-consulting.com (Alvin Oga)
Date: Mon, 26 May 2003 02:27:27 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dedicated server hosting?  -- sanity checks
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0305260145190.32482-100000@arrakis.halligan.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1030526020316.17611B-100000@Maggie.Linux-Consulting.com>


hi ya Michael

On Mon, 26 May 2003, Michael T. Halligan wrote:

> On Mon, 26 May 2003, Alvin Oga wrote:
> 
> = 	- i dont like other people playing with my servers
> 
> I know the feeling :)  I prefer clusters of redundant, well managed
> servers, and as much remote-hands as possible.. I'd rather bring
> a box off line and take a performance hit in a cluster, than have
> an unknown noc person touch my boxen.

yes... but suually, if something goes wrong, there's usually
a good reason for it ...
	- bad lilo installl
	- untested patches
	- flaky or bad hardware, ..
 
i "claim" colo boxes shouldnt need to be touched too often,
esp since its at some far away place ( 100s, 1000s of miles away
or even across the oceans )

> I'm envious with you on that. The only nice thing I remember
> about living in Santa Clara was cheap, reliable power bills. During

just an office w/  a good t1 ... simple stuff... w/ utilities included
:-)

> the power mismanag.. err 'energy crisis" I never lost power.. Now
> I live in an industrial section of town in sf, and pay something like
> $500 per month in power, and it's somewhat spotty :/

yep... am runnin scared... new place is NNN lease, so i pay for 
everything ... *yikes*
 	- thats why i need ot look into separate power meters for
	each colo box ...  or some kind of deal 
 
> Yeah.  The worst part about searching for colo/hosting is when
> you don't know what questions to ask.. I've worked for several
> hosting companies, and a ton of other "non-hosting" companies,
> so I know generally what I'm looking for.. But I find a lot of
> people who just go with whatever their pricerange is not knowing
> any better.

- questions, feedbacks, etc

- if the sales droid doesnt return phone calls... skip over that company
  and find one thats more customer friendly
	- if they respnd a week later ... that'd probably will a
	good indicator of their tech support too

- other sales droid questions
	- what price/perfomance and SLA ... am i signing for ...
	- what paper work do you need for me to move in
	- whan can i move in
	- what is the deposits ( if any they need )
	- what is the lease term and discounts for 1y, 2y, 3yr lease
	- what is my ip# range, mask, subnet, gateway
	- how do i get 1,2,4 full externally routable static class-C ip#
	- who is the main tech support email addy and ph#
		- can call um ... test them first ...
	-

- although 95 - 99% of all admin work can be done remotely...
  that last 5% or last 1% will kill your server for hours/days/weeks if
  you're not careful ...
	- how much $$$ did you just lose for the server being offline

	- why did it go offline and how was it preventable

- ask to talk to their tech support guy
	( pretend scenario ... we're looking at colo'ing with you,
	( here's our "interview test"

 	- my machine just crashed, it wont boot, the screen says
	"LI" .. what do you do ??

	- how many different ways can you boot a linux/freebsd box ??

	- once its back ... the machine has tons of "hd seek errors"
	what do you do ??

	- how do you know a fan died ?? or not running at full speed

	- remember, if the colo folks have to get involved, that machine
	is probably seriously hosed ...

- send um a tech support email ... see what their response time is
	- insert a floppy ...
	- insert a cdrom ..
	- swap ethernet cables for eth0 and eth1 ..
	- hit the silly reset switch

- are you the reseller of a colo facility or the "company" that owns/runs
  the facility ( most people are just resellers .. they'd add their
  charges on top of the fees they're paying )
	- some sales droids donno the answer.. not surprising

- fax me everything that i need to sign ...
	- 1/2 - 2/3 of the sales folks donno what to do..
	( email is NOT a god thing for legal documents ... too easy to
	( forge, changed, modify, excerpt to suit their needs

	=================================================
	=== get everything in writing only and signed ===
	=================================================

- give me ALL the forms i need to fill out to move in today...
	- what all do i need to do  and checks i need to send to "where"
	and to whom is it made out

- how many other people is on the same "ethernet cable"

- what happens to your network and my boxes when you're under a DDoS
  attack or some windoze/linux box got hacked ... 

- send um emails in the middle of the night..
	- see if a competent tech support replies or you get 
	a minimum wage reply .. "we'll get back to you later"

- endless ... fun stuff ...


- after all that... i decided  a t1 ... in my office .. still ..

c ya
alvin

-- just got bit by the sales droid issue over the last few weeks
-- just got bit by a cdrom install problem overseas ...
.. just stuff that gonna get ya.. sooner or later ..




From jake at digicamp.com  Tue May 27 04:15:12 2003
From: jake at digicamp.com (Jake Fahnert)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 04:15:12 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dedicated server hosting?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0305251900210.31022-100000@arrakis.halligan.org>
References: <1548.66.92.48.200.1053911473.squirrel@mail.digicamp.com>
        <Pine.LNX.4.44.0305251900210.31022-100000@arrakis.halligan.org>
Message-ID: <1709.66.92.48.200.1054034112.squirrel@mail.digicamp.com>

Jacob Fahnert <jake at digicamp.com> said :

Michael,

Looks like good stuff. Especially the backup services.  I'll
take this offline and e-mail you in the morning.

Jacob


@===========================@
Linux and Windows Systems Administrator

In response to what Michael T. Halligan <michael at halligan.org> said :

> I'm not sure if it's what you're looking for, but I'm starting a new
> dedicated hosting company.  We're going "live" June 1st, but already
> have a few customers (mainly customers of mine I've been hosting.
> We sell rackspace for $50/U and bandwidth for $125/mbit. We've got a
> couple of 100mbit pipes from different providers.  I'll attach our
> "standard marking text" so you can get some pricing.
>
> Our website is at www.bigserverhosting.com, but we're still putting
> everything into our templates (my partner wrote it in a non-english
> language, now I get to help him translate.. fun fun) so the attachment
> is the better source of information..
>
> Check it out, and send me an email, we might be able to work something
> out.
>
>
>
> -------------------
> Michael T. Halligan
> Chief Geek
> Halligan Infrastructure Designs.
> http://www.halligan.org/
> 2250 Jerrold Ave #11
> San Francisco, CA 94124-1012
> (415) 824.4453 - Home/Office
> (415) 724.7998 - Mobile





From chrisl+baylisa at cs.cmu.edu  Tue May 27 12:51:11 2003
From: chrisl+baylisa at cs.cmu.edu (chrisl+baylisa at cs.cmu.edu)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 15:51:11 -0400
Subject: IDS Survey Participants Requested
Message-ID: <16083.49583.824487.780210@ux11.sp.cs.cmu.edu>

Hi,

I am a researcher at Carnegie Mellon University and I would like a few
minutes of your time to help make firewalls and intrusion detection
systems more usable.

The group I am in is developing technology for embedding firewall- and
IDS-like functionality into disk drives and network interface cards.
I am investigating how IDSs are used in the real world to determine
how to administer these new "self-securing" devices.  If you use
firewalls/IDSs and would like to help, take this survey about IDS
usage:

http://www.pdl.cmu.edu/Secure/sysadmin-survey/

We expect it to take about 15-20 minutes.

I would also like to interview IDS users.  If you are interested,
contact me.

For more information about this project, email me and/or visit the
project web site:

http://www.pdl.cmu.edu/Castellan/

Feel free to pass this along to anyone you think would be interested.

Thanks.

- Chris

A. Chris Long <*> aclong+survey{@}ece.cmu.edu <*> http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~chrisl
Postdoctoral Fellow, Parallel Data Laboratory, Carnegie Mellon University


From extasia at extasia.org  Tue May 27 15:49:08 2003
From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 15:49:08 -0700
Subject: [baylisa] Reinstall python?
In-Reply-To: <20030524214926.GC676@nag.inorganic.org>; from rsr@inorganic.org on Sat, May 24, 2003 at 02:49:26PM -0700
References: <20030524101016.A13681@gerasimov.net> <20030524214926.GC676@nag.inorganic.org>
Message-ID: <20030527154908.A16188@gerasimov.net>

At 2003/05/24/14:49 -0700 Roy S. Rapoport <rsr at inorganic.org> wrote:
> That's actually not a Mailman/Python issue, but a Mailman configuration
> issue.  It's not telling you that Python can't find the getgrnam
> function, but rather that getgrnam is not able to find the group database entry for the entry that mm_cfg.MAILMAN_GROUP is pointing to.  In other words, the 
> MAILMAN_GROUP variable in your mm_cfg.py or Defaults.py files has set does not
> correspond to a UNIX group name on your system.

> So I think you're probably not really SOL -- my guess is you just need
> to tweak mm_cfg.py (or, technically, Defaults.py, though you should use
> mm_cfg.py).

That was it!  I edited ~/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py.  Changed the lines:

  MAILMAN_USER = ''
  MAILMAN_GROUP = ''

to:

  MAILMAN_USER = 'mailman'
  MAILMAN_GROUP = 'mailman'

And was able to restart mailman without the previous complaints!

Thanks Roy!

David
-- 
Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.
                                 ***
Come to sig-beer-west!     http://www.extasia.org/sig-beer-west/
Unix sysadmin available:   http://www.extasia.org/resume/
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From rsr at inorganic.org  Tue May 27 16:28:10 2003
From: rsr at inorganic.org (Roy S. Rapoport)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 16:28:10 -0700
Subject: [baylisa] Reinstall python?
In-Reply-To: <20030527154908.A16188@gerasimov.net>
References: <20030524101016.A13681@gerasimov.net> <20030524214926.GC676@nag.inorganic.org> <20030527154908.A16188@gerasimov.net>
Message-ID: <20030527232810.GA26390@nag.inorganic.org>

On Tue, May 27, 2003 at 03:49:08PM -0700, David Alban wrote:
> That was it!  I edited ~/mailman/Mailman/Defaults.py.  Changed the lines:
> 
>   MAILMAN_USER = ''
>   MAILMAN_GROUP = ''
> 
> to:
> 
>   MAILMAN_USER = 'mailman'
>   MAILMAN_GROUP = 'mailman'
> 
> And was able to restart mailman without the previous complaints!
> 
> Thanks Roy!

Very glad to be of service!

Now go back and do it the right way :)

(Defaults.py is installed as part of Mailman and may very well be
overwritten the next time you install Mailman.  However, mm_cfg.py is
considered to be site-dependent and will *NOT* be overwritten when you
reinstall Mailman.  Hence, the correct solution is to never edit
Defaults.py -- always tweak mm_cfg.py instead).

BTW, on a pseudo-related note, the happiest day of my Mailman-running
life was when I figured out how to add lists in Mailman and not have to
tweak my (then Sendmail, now Postfix) MTA configuration for each list.
If you haven't done this already, you might want to look into it.

-roy




From michael at halligan.org  Wed May 28 14:32:36 2003
From: michael at halligan.org (Michael T. Halligan)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 14:32:36 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dedicated server hosting?  -- sanity checks
In-Reply-To: <20030528204848.GB13765@snew.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0305281420010.17099-100000@arrakis.halligan.org>

= Your test scenario also covers well why I tend to fear using most
= Intel boxes and often Linux in a colo.

I agree to that.  In an ideal world, I'd have all of my customers
using REAL hardware.  But, when I can build 8 dual proc intel
boxes for the price of one 420R, guess who wins? 


= PCWeasel or Compaq's "Lights Out"  stuff is imperative for remote
= management.

Motherboards which support Ethernet Management Protocol are a nice
solution as well.

= Serial console access is imperative.
= "the screen says..." question is silly.  Where would you have a screen?
= Why?  If you can't tell it to boot from disk 2 (where you keep a spare
= root partition for that moment), then you'll be driving a fair bit.
= You ssh to your terminal server and YOU see "LI" on the serial port.
= Another port on the TS may handle power cycling your box.

To me, a better design philosophy is to avoid hard drives as boot media
on small servers.  I'm debating making all of my dedicated servers boot
pxelinux, and having mirrored hard drives on all the servers solely for
customer data and backing up via rsync or amanda, or using something
like AFS or CODA to keep synced copies of data on a "massive" central
file server. And having the root file system be a series of symlinks
to nfs mounts, a linkfarm if you will.  That way I can perform upgrades
without affecting my managed `users, then once I'm satisified adequate 
testing has been done, just sending a reboot command to their boxes.

= I'm moving some stuff local because I have a guy down the street
= with fractional T3 access (via 802.11a and a big freaking antenna
= to a colo 7 miles away in Oakland).  But my house terminal server
= is still the main access method (heaven forfend that I can't handle
= it while on a trip or even just upstairs).

What street do you live on? :)

In that note, in my datacenter is an ISP that happens to have a warehouse
about 1/2 mile line of sight from mine.  I'm thinking of doing the same.

= I don't really want NOC people to be touching my machines.  I
= CLEARLY mark the power and ethernet.  I'll tape over unused ports
= (parallel, USB, etc).  If it can be plugged in wrong, it will be.

When I was at (mid-sized horrible company) hosting with (large, 400 lb
gorilla hosting provider) we had 2 cisco 7200s, one which we had
turned off while waiting for new routers to get approved, because
the bad one had a bad port which brought down our connectivity.. 
once a month for 3 months, until we put a large "If you touch this,
you will be fired" sign on the router, some genius noc monkey would
plug it in, even though it was unplugged from the console server, power,
and uplink.

= The win of a colo is bursts of HUGE bandwidth - like a store at a
= mall gets bursts of infinite parking spaces - but high on-average
= uses will still cost.  It's just that now the Colo is a ready drop
= point for one of several providers.

Bursting is bad network design, and even worse budget design, especially
if your provider has an N*PRICE rate for bursting beyond commit rates.

= DIVERSITY:
= Previous work used Level3 because we could hook in in SF and NYC
= and in Europe.  Our "intraoffice" packets went over their network
= and could have bandwidth guarantees.  Didn't have, but should have,
= machines in geographicly diverse places.  The Bay moves.  That's
= gonna suck one day.  My little SPARC 10 hosts DNS for 200 domains
= and backup MX for a bunch of domains which I trade with another
= guy who's got good connectivity in the Bay.

A side note, secondary.com does a GREAT job of providing redundant
secondary dns, and will provide decent prices for large amounts of
servers.

= PRESUME the machine will crash.  Presume that the NOC staff just
= barely graduated 8th grade and were turned down at the McTacoKing.
= Presume that moving parts will fail (fans, disks).  Presume it
= will happen during an earthquake whose only damage it to wreck
= your car. 
= -How much does 3 days down cost you?
= -Can you change DNS from another place to get packets routed to
=  a low-bandwidth desperate recovery site (even just a page that
=  says "down for maintainance, back on monday")?
= 
= Now build your box.

-------------------
Michael T. Halligan
Chief Geek
Halligan Infrastructure Designs.
http://www.halligan.org/
2250 Jerrold Ave #11
San Francisco, CA 94124-1012
(415) 824.4453 - Home/Office
(415) 724.7998 - Mobile



From alvin at maggie.linux-consulting.com  Wed May 28 15:39:32 2003
From: alvin at maggie.linux-consulting.com (Alvin Oga)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 15:39:32 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Dedicated server hosting?  -- sanity checks
In-Reply-To: <20030528204848.GB13765@snew.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1030528151945.4870A-100000@Maggie.Linux-Consulting.com>


hi ya chuck

On Wed, 28 May 2003, Chuck Yerkes wrote:

> You've got to start using whole sentences with verbs and nouns and
> articles.  I can understand people with strong chinese and indian
> accepts, but I can't read half of your posts...
^^^^^^^^^^

I'm sorry, i couldn't resist :-) 
didnt know if it was  test or intentional :-)

> Your test scenario also covers well why I tend to fear using most
> Intel boxes and often Linux in a colo.

which also eliminates the colo itself, as i wanna be able to fix
it "asap" and not waiting around for them
 	- i can' t wait for fedex either ( just my requirement )

yes, a spark is a lot better in that it has remote console access 
but some of the newer intel/amd mb now have those remote console
features

> In 4 years, the hard drive (old) died.  I replaced it via fedex and
> a guy there swapping.

some disk drives are rated at 1,000,000 MTBF ... 
most cpu's are rated at 30,000 MTBF ...
	- systems degrade by 1/2 of your life span for every 10C increase
	in operating temp from ambient 25C

- things should NOT be dying that soon ... something else is wrong
  besides temp problems ...  ( bad/flaky drives ?? )

> I have no BIOS to fight, I have an "oh shit" backup of net booting
> if I really needed it.

that's the linux oh $%^@#$ and sometimes freebsd too
and a good admin should be able to eliminate most of the surprises

> PCWeasel or Compaq's "Lights Out"  stuff is imperative for remote
> management.
> 
> Serial console access is imperative.

yes,  but i don't like(allow) people hitting reset/power switches
	- that's where lots of problems start from

	- one should be able to fix things without rebooting

> "the screen says..." question is silly. 
> Where would you have a screen?

yuppers and very time consuming

or use a webcam for "seeing the screen" and point it at the
screen/machine under test...

> Why?  If you can't tell it to boot from disk 2 (where you keep a spare
> root partition for that moment), then you'll be driving a fair bit.
> You ssh to your terminal server and YOU see "LI" on the serial port.
> Another port on the TS may handle power cycling your box.

that'd be nice ... to be able to see bios/console messages from
silly PCs ...

not many seem to have those gizmo's setup at the colo's :-)

> I don't really want NOC people to be touching my machines.  I

:-)

> CLEARLY mark the power and ethernet.  I'll tape over unused ports
> (parallel, USB, etc).  If it can be plugged in wrong, it will be.
> 
> A tape drive may be useful.  Easy to swap drives IS useful.
> Mirroring (for cheap) or real external hardware RAID is compulsory
> (internal RAID cards can be a hazard for remote production machines).

yuppers ... and installing a redundant and mirrored machine
that costs an extra $500 - $1000 will save your butt one day
( cheap insurance policy for the "oops" that will happen one day

i don't use tape drives ...
 
> BANDWIDTH:
..
> The win of a colo is bursts of HUGE bandwidth - like a store at a
> mall gets bursts of infinite parking spaces - but high on-average
> uses will still cost.  It's just that now the Colo is a ready drop
> point for one of several providers.

colo question ... if one goes over one's alloted 95th percentile,
how much extra are you charge for the over your alloted limits
	- he.net has big surprises at the low end of the bw scale

> DIVERSITY:
> Previous work used Level3 because we could hook in in SF and NYC
> and in Europe.

yuppers .. if availability is required regardless of "disasters"

> PRESUME the machine will crash.  Presume that the NOC staff just
> barely graduated 8th grade and were turned down at the McTacoKing.
> Presume that moving parts will fail (fans, disks).  Presume it
> will happen during an earthquake whose only damage it to wreck
> your car. 
> -How much does 3 days down cost you?
> -Can you change DNS from another place to get packets routed to
>  a low-bandwidth desperate recovery site (even just a page that
>  says "down for maintainance, back on monday")?
> 
> Now build your box.

"boxes" .. and network infrastructure and backups

and when the disk or cpu fan or power supply fan  dies
at 3:00am ... how long does it take to fix it ??
	- pay up front in prevention/workarounds
	- or pay when the machine dies in downtime ..

have fun
alvin 



From chuck at snew.com  Wed May 28 13:48:48 2003
From: chuck at snew.com (Chuck Yerkes)
Date: Wed, 28 May 2003 16:48:48 -0400
Subject: Dedicated server hosting?  -- sanity checks
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1030526020316.17611B-100000@Maggie.Linux-Consulting.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0305260145190.32482-100000@arrakis.halligan.org> <Pine.LNX.3.96.1030526020316.17611B-100000@Maggie.Linux-Consulting.com>
Message-ID: <20030528204848.GB13765@snew.com>


You've got to start using whole sentences with verbs and nouns and
articles.  I can understand people with strong chinese and indian
accepts, but I can't read half of your posts...

Quoting Alvin Oga (alvin at maggie.linux-consulting.com):
...
> - ask to talk to their tech support guy
> 	( pretend scenario ... we're looking at colo'ing with you,
> 	( here's our "interview test"
> 
>  	- my machine just crashed, it wont boot, the screen says
> 	"LI" .. what do you do ??
> 
> 	- how many different ways can you boot a linux/freebsd box ??
> 
> 	- once its back ... the machine has tons of "hd seek errors"
> 	what do you do ??
> 
> 	- how do you know a fan died ?? or not running at full speed
> 
> 	- remember, if the colo folks have to get involved, that machine
> 	is probably seriously hosed ...

Your test scenario also covers well why I tend to fear using most
Intel boxes and often Linux in a colo.

I have a box at a colo 3000 miles away.  I've never seen or touched
it.  A raging SPARC 10.  It was passed to the ISP owner by a friend
with 2 disks inside and no OS.  I booted it via serial port over
the net (boot net) and installed from a nearby SPARC 2.

In 4 years, the hard drive (old) died.  I replaced it via fedex and
a guy there swapping.

I have no BIOS to fight, I have an "oh shit" backup of net booting
if I really needed it.


PCWeasel or Compaq's "Lights Out"  stuff is imperative for remote
management.

Serial console access is imperative.
"the screen says..." question is silly.  Where would you have a screen?
Why?  If you can't tell it to boot from disk 2 (where you keep a spare
root partition for that moment), then you'll be driving a fair bit.
You ssh to your terminal server and YOU see "LI" on the serial port.
Another port on the TS may handle power cycling your box.

I'm moving some stuff local because I have a guy down the street
with fractional T3 access (via 802.11a and a big freaking antenna
to a colo 7 miles away in Oakland).  But my house terminal server
is still the main access method (heaven forfend that I can't handle
it while on a trip or even just upstairs).


I don't really want NOC people to be touching my machines.  I
CLEARLY mark the power and ethernet.  I'll tape over unused ports
(parallel, USB, etc).  If it can be plugged in wrong, it will be.

A tape drive may be useful.  Easy to swap drives IS useful.
Mirroring (for cheap) or real external hardware RAID is compulsory
(internal RAID cards can be a hazard for remote production machines).


BANDWIDTH:
As for where, I have freinds doing low bandwidth and sharing a rack
at HE.net in hayward.  Near enough to get to, cheap enough for
them.  You need a true 5mb/s?  That's a real colo demand and will
cost (at an office or at a colo).  One presumes that you earn more
from it than bandwidth costs.

The win of a colo is bursts of HUGE bandwidth - like a store at a
mall gets bursts of infinite parking spaces - but high on-average
uses will still cost.  It's just that now the Colo is a ready drop
point for one of several providers.

DIVERSITY:
Previous work used Level3 because we could hook in in SF and NYC
and in Europe.  Our "intraoffice" packets went over their network
and could have bandwidth guarantees.  Didn't have, but should have,
machines in geographicly diverse places.  The Bay moves.  That's
gonna suck one day.  My little SPARC 10 hosts DNS for 200 domains
and backup MX for a bunch of domains which I trade with another
guy who's got good connectivity in the Bay.

A big lightning storm in New Jersey took it down for 4 hrs (until
a *working* generator was applied to the UPSs in the racks).  My
mail happily queued in Boston and San Francisco for that time.



PRESUME the machine will crash.  Presume that the NOC staff just
barely graduated 8th grade and were turned down at the McTacoKing.
Presume that moving parts will fail (fans, disks).  Presume it
will happen during an earthquake whose only damage it to wreck
your car. 
-How much does 3 days down cost you?
-Can you change DNS from another place to get packets routed to
 a low-bandwidth desperate recovery site (even just a page that
 says "down for maintainance, back on monday")?

Now build your box.



From afactor at afactor.com  Thu May 29 15:01:30 2003
From: afactor at afactor.com (Alan Factor)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 15:01:30 -0700
Subject: Recommendations for lowend dedicated server/colo shops
Message-ID: <3ED6833A.700@afactor.com>

Can anybody recommend a low cost place to colo or rent dedicated servers 
when the client only needs 2-3 boxes online? Basically, I'm looking for 
a reliable safe place.

Thanks,
Alan



From david at weekly.org  Thu May 29 15:45:54 2003
From: david at weekly.org (David E. Weekly)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 15:45:54 -0700
Subject: HE.Net Quotes?
References: <3ED6833A.700@afactor.com>
Message-ID: <007601c32634$104a1030$ba650a0a@pc.there.com>

Folks here had mentioned rates at HE's Fremont facilities for $100/1mbps and
$400/5mbps. My account rep at HE says this ain't so. Anyone care to swap
notes?

Cheers,
 David E. Weekly
 Founder & Director
 California Community Colocation Project
 http://CommunityColo.net/


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Alan Factor" <afactor at afactor.com>
To: <baylisa at baylisa.org>
Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2003 3:01 PM
Subject: Recommendations for lowend dedicated server/colo shops


> Can anybody recommend a low cost place to colo or rent dedicated servers
> when the client only needs 2-3 boxes online? Basically, I'm looking for
> a reliable safe place.
>
> Thanks,
> Alan
>
>




From afactor at afactor.com  Thu May 29 16:06:34 2003
From: afactor at afactor.com (Alan Factor)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 16:06:34 -0700
Subject: Recommendations for lowend dedicated server/colo shops
References:  <Pine.LNX.3.96.1030529153436.10288A-100000@Maggie.Linux-Consulting.com>
Message-ID: <3ED6927A.7010406@afactor.com>

Bandwidth requirements are insignificant really. I would like peak 
speeds ca. 500Kbps - 1Mbps but total monthly bandwidth probably will 
never exceed 1G/month.

Thanks,
Alan

Alvin Oga wrote:
> hi ya
> 
> you forgot ( did not forget ) to mention bandwidth requirements,
> as sometimes it makes a difference as to where you wind up going
> 
> list of local resellers's 
> ( whom are just reselling space of the bigger colos )
> 
> http://www.micro-colo.net/Resellers
> 
> range is $50 - $250 per 1U of space  plus bandwidth costs
> 
> c ya
> alvin
> 
> 
> On Thu, 29 May 2003, Alan Factor wrote:
> 
> 
>>Can anybody recommend a low cost place to colo or rent dedicated servers 
>>when the client only needs 2-3 boxes online? Basically, I'm looking for 
>>a reliable safe place.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Alan
>>
> 
> 
> 


-- 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This e-mail transmission may contain information that is proprietary, 
privileged
and/or confidential and is intended exclusively for the person(s) to 
whom it is
addressed. Any use, copying, retention or disclosure by any person other 
than the
intended recipient or the intended recipient's designees is strictly 
prohibited.



From alvin at maggie.linux-consulting.com  Thu May 29 16:52:54 2003
From: alvin at maggie.linux-consulting.com (Alvin Oga)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 16:52:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: HE.Net Quotes?
In-Reply-To: <007601c32634$104a1030$ba650a0a@pc.there.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1030529161958.10577B-100000@Maggie.Linux-Consulting.com>


hi ya david

On Thu, 29 May 2003, David E. Weekly wrote:

> Folks here had mentioned rates at HE's Fremont facilities for $100/1mbps and
> $400/5mbps. My account rep at HE says this ain't so. Anyone care to swap
> notes?

i think it's commission based .. :-)
	- different sales reps seems to give different rates ?

going rates is $100/Mbps from various isp, depending on how you
add and subtract for a fair apples to apples comparison
for the "same bandwidth + rack space"


watch out for other charges, either in rack charges or long term contract
or install fees or extra ip# charges or extra power/amperage fees 
or router charges or "expedite fees vs 2 weeks to go live"  and lots of
fees ( $1,000 ) if you exceed your "95th percentile quota"  

and if it's 1Mbps, you can get a full T1 to your office for
$400 + local pacbell charges ( $200-$250 typical? )
	- or burstable T3 tooo ...

mix and match  as needed ...

have fun
alvin

pretty pictures of some of the backbone
	http://www.micro-colo.net/POP.gifs/

my numbers was... 
( he.net and level3 reseller quotes was ready for signature )

( ask um 3x and you'll get 3 different answers )


			full rack	bw
	he.net		$ 400		$ 400 / 1Mpbs
					$ 300 / 512Mbps
					$ 250 / 256Kbps

	level3		$ 900		$ 800 / 5Mbps

	level3 reseller	$ 750		$ 100 / 1Mpbs

	layer42		$ 500		1Mbps included

	psinet.com	included	$ 1000 / 2Mbps

	cogentco.com	??		$ 1,000 / 100Mbps



From michael at halligan.org  Thu May 29 17:16:08 2003
From: michael at halligan.org (Michael T. Halligan)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 17:16:08 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: HE.Net Quotes?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1030529161958.10577B-100000@Maggie.Linux-Consulting.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0305291715340.23263-100000@arrakis.halligan.org>

= watch out for other charges, either in rack charges or long term contract
= or install fees or extra ip# charges or extra power/amperage fees 
= or router charges or "expedite fees vs 2 weeks to go live"  and lots of
= fees ( $1,000 ) if you exceed your "95th percentile quota"  
= 
= and if it's 1Mbps, you can get a full T1 to your office for
= $400 + local pacbell charges ( $200-$250 typical? )
= 	- or burstable T3 tooo ...
= 

Do t1s even matter nowadays, when you can get SDSL 1.1mb for around $300, and
not have to buy a router that can handle a t1?

-------------------
Michael T. Halligan
Chief Geek
Halligan Infrastructure Designs.
http://www.halligan.org/
2250 Jerrold Ave #11
San Francisco, CA 94124-1012
(415) 824.4453 - Home/Office
(415) 724.7998 - Mobile



From neil at askneil.com  Thu May 29 17:14:46 2003
From: neil at askneil.com (Neil Katin)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 17:14:46 -0700
Subject: HE.Net Quotes?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1030529161958.10577B-100000@Maggie.Linux-Consulting.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1030529161958.10577B-100000@Maggie.Linux-Consulting.com>
Message-ID: <3ED6A276.5080600@askneil.com>



Alvin Oga wrote:

> 			full rack	bw

> 	cogentco.com	??		$ 1,000 / 100Mbps
> 

The cogentco line seemed too good to be true, so I went
over to their website.  For colocation their list price
is 1K/month for 2mbit, and 3K/month for 100mbit.

They have a "retail" product for 100mbit for 1k/month,
but its only for buildings that cogentco has already
lit up.

	Neil



From alvin at maggie.linux-consulting.com  Thu May 29 17:31:13 2003
From: alvin at maggie.linux-consulting.com (Alvin Oga)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 17:31:13 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: HE.Net Quotes?
In-Reply-To: <3ED6A276.5080600@askneil.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1030529172523.10577E-100000@Maggie.Linux-Consulting.com>


On Thu, 29 May 2003, Neil Katin wrote:

> Alvin Oga wrote:
> 
> > 			full rack	bw
> 
> > 	cogentco.com	??		$ 1,000 / 100Mbps
> > 
> 
> The cogentco line seemed too good to be true, so I went
> over to their website.  For colocation their list price
> is 1K/month for 2mbit, and 3K/month for 100mbit.

not those  ( those are the PSInet.com ones ?? )

> They have a "retail" product for 100mbit for 1k/month,
> but its only for buildings that cogentco has already
> lit up.

i just stopped at the cogentco.com front page
for the $1000 / 100Mbps

i called um ... they wouldn't return the phone calls
( dont know about detailed terms/conditions that is ready for signature )

i know people that are paying $30/1Mbps connectivity at the
cogent/williams/others/?? (same) colo bldg in santa clara

have fun
alvin




From alvin at maggie.linux-consulting.com  Thu May 29 17:42:54 2003
From: alvin at maggie.linux-consulting.com (Alvin Oga)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 17:42:54 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: HE.Net Quotes? - t1s
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0305291715340.23263-100000@arrakis.halligan.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1030529173304.10577F-100000@Maggie.Linux-Consulting.com>


hi ya michael

On Thu, 29 May 2003, Michael T. Halligan wrote:

> Do t1s even matter nowadays, when you can get SDSL 1.1mb for around $300, and
> not have to buy a router that can handle a t1?

for 1.5Mbps (T1) speeds ...
	- i like having the machines in my office for $600/month
	and not limited to "space" in the rack or floors and power

	- saves me from driving around town in rush hour if a
	lonely machine is acting odd and needs a "look see and
	touchy-feely"
 
	- i also like that there's (supposedly) no windoze boxes on that
	same wire

	- i have a bunch of csu/dsu routers already, but i don't know the
	passwd to some of the routers anymore  :-)

	- i want the reverse dns for the class-C ip# to be correct
	instead of saying mail came from w.x.y.z.dsl.pacbell.net
	which most rdns-checking mta will bounce
		- some isp propagates rdns correctly, others dont

for sdsl, i tried that in the covad/northpoint days and they couldn't get
it installed the right way ...
	- i still monitor a few machines on dsl ... and i see those
	puppies go up and down like a yo-yo on a weekly basis

	- if it goes down, it could be for a few minutes or few hours

	- i don't like having any down time that is not something i turned
	off to play with the box

have fun
alvin



From chuck+baylisa at snew.com  Thu May 29 18:25:26 2003
From: chuck+baylisa at snew.com (Chuck Yerkes)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 21:25:26 -0400
Subject: HE.Net Quotes?
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0305291715340.23263-100000@arrakis.halligan.org>
References: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1030529161958.10577B-100000@Maggie.Linux-Consulting.com> <Pine.LNX.4.44.0305291715340.23263-100000@arrakis.halligan.org>
Message-ID: <20030530012526.GB28249@snew.com>

Quoting Michael T. Halligan (michael at halligan.org):
> = watch out for other charges, either in rack charges or long term contract
> = or install fees or extra ip# charges or extra power/amperage fees 
> = or router charges or "expedite fees vs 2 weeks to go live"  and lots of
> = fees ( $1,000 ) if you exceed your "95th percentile quota"  
> = 
> = and if it's 1Mbps, you can get a full T1 to your office for
> = $400 + local pacbell charges ( $200-$250 typical? )
> = 	- or burstable T3 tooo ...
> 
> Do t1s even matter nowadays, when you can get SDSL 1.1mb for around $300, and
> not have to buy a router that can handle a t1?

Last I checked, a T1 to my house was gonna cost me $800 or so per
month.  I pondered doing a little lightweight CoLo business, but
the power charges would have sucked up most of the profit.
And it's just a T1.  With Colo'd 1Mbps, if I average low and
occasional web site hits mean it uses 10Mb/s for a couple moments,
I win.  Clever use of ALTQ (dummynet) and snmp packet counts and
I won't exceed their nasty cost thresholds.


I've never actually gotten 1mb from any DSL lines.  Especially UP and
especially once you wander 3 or 4 hops away.

OTOH, using the neighbor's T1 "Feels" a lot faster than even the
ATT/ComCast cable line.

I'm also recalling playing with a Qwest line in NYC last winter
with ENORMOUS traceroute hop times to the second node.  Bad enough
that the "first three months free" was tossed and the line replaced
with a more expensive and more functional one.

RE: routers.  While I *do* own a Cisco cabled of taking 3 T1s,
I was using a highspeed serial card in a P/90 running BSD in 1995.
Worked fine.  I could drop it somewhere with 32 serial ports and
a 32 modem rack and have a POP in short order.



From michael at halligan.org  Thu May 29 20:00:48 2003
From: michael at halligan.org (Michael T. Halligan)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 20:00:48 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: HE.Net Quotes?
In-Reply-To: <3ED6A276.5080600@askneil.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0305291957440.23263-100000@arrakis.halligan.org>

= > 			full rack	bw
= 
= > 	cogentco.com	??		$ 1,000 / 100Mbps
= > 
= 
= The cogentco line seemed too good to be true, so I went
= over to their website.  For colocation their list price
= is 1K/month for 2mbit, and 3K/month for 100mbit.
= 
= They have a "retail" product for 100mbit for 1k/month,
= but its only for buildings that cogentco has already
= lit up.


It is too good to be true.. Cogent has one good use : Mirroring
filesystems over a really fast point to point link.  If you're
in 2 datacenters cogent is in, then $3k a month is awesome.. But
if you're buying transit from them, the $3k it costs for a 100mbit
(that's their current price as far as I knoW) is overpriced.. Their
network kind of sucks, because they basically have no peering.. The
worst part of it, is if you remember how lousy PSI.net was.. well,
they bought psi.net to expand their network.. plus cogent's ip
blocks get rbl'd a lot, because spammers use them a lot.


-------------------
Michael T. Halligan
Chief Geek
Halligan Infrastructure Designs.
http://www.halligan.org/
2250 Jerrold Ave #11
San Francisco, CA 94124-1012
(415) 824.4453 - Home/Office
(415) 724.7998 - Mobile



From fscked at pacbell.net  Thu May 29 20:15:29 2003
From: fscked at pacbell.net (richard childers / kg6hac)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 20:15:29 -0700
Subject: Recommendations for lowend dedicated server/colo shops
References: <3ED6833A.700@afactor.com>
Message-ID: <3ED6CCD1.5040604@pacbell.net>

What's wrong with a locked rack in a locked closet with a DSL circuit 
and a UPS?

Worked for a decade or so (minus DSL) just fine; still does. DSL just 
makes it cheaper.

Worried about security? Add an alarm system and a webcam or two.

Put it right on the customer's premises. If they need 24x365 Internet 
access, you can always pull additional DSL lines from competing 
providers. You'll still be saving them a few thousand a month; make sure 
they know that.

YMMV.


-- richard



Alan Factor wrote:

> Can anybody recommend a low cost place to colo or rent dedicated 
> servers when the client only needs 2-3 boxes online? Basically, I'm 
> looking for a reliable safe place.
>
> Thanks,
> Alan
>




From baylisa at az0.altern8.net  Thu May 29 20:42:59 2003
From: baylisa at az0.altern8.net (Vince Hoang)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 17:42:59 -1000
Subject: Recommendations for lowend dedicated server/colo shops
In-Reply-To: <3ED6CCD1.5040604@pacbell.net>
References: <3ED6833A.700@afactor.com> <3ED6CCD1.5040604@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <20030530034258.GH39665@anarchy.com>

On Thu, May 29, 2003 at 08:15:29PM -0700, richard childers / kg6hac wrote: 
> What's wrong with a locked rack in a locked closet with a DSL
> circuit and a UPS?

Latency is a potential issue. 

> Put it right on the customer's premises. If they need 24x365
> Internet access, you can always pull additional DSL lines from
> competing providers. You'll still be saving them a few thousand
> a month; make sure they know that.

Not if the providers are all using the same LEC.

But, if a customer wants cheap, they can probably live with the
occasional loss in availability.

-Vince


From alvin at maggie.linux-consulting.com  Thu May 29 21:41:20 2003
From: alvin at maggie.linux-consulting.com (Alvin Oga)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 21:41:20 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Recommendations for lowend dedicated server/colo shops
In-Reply-To: <3ED6CCD1.5040604@pacbell.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1030529211659.11763C-100000@Maggie.Linux-Consulting.com>


hi ya

On Thu, 29 May 2003, richard childers / kg6hac wrote:

> What's wrong with a locked rack in a locked closet with a DSL circuit 
> and a UPS?

( couldn't resist .. nothing wrong but ... for "closet" fun .. )

- no air flow
- closet collects dust
- closet is typically a non-locking door
- typically no outlets in the closet except for one light
  and one power switch if any
- you don't get to see pretty red/green/yellow/blue lights 
  ( unless you use a clear 7'x3' clear plastic door )
- typically no backside to the closet, to work behind the pc
  without moving it around
- you can't sit inside the hallway closet to work
	( unless it's a huge master bedroom walk-in closet in which
	( case you would need to get "permission" from your other half

- you can not upload much data over dsl  ( 364K is too slow for me )
- dsl goes down a lot ... in the middle of the night

> Worked for a decade or so (minus DSL) just fine; still does. DSL just 
> makes it cheaper.

and lot faster for downloads 

> Worried about security? Add an alarm system and a webcam or two.

i think an alarm is not much use... just makes noises ...
and the culprit will still take that pc and/or trash it and/or run with or
without it

after detecting an intruder, an alarm would work if you email a pic of the
intruder to your yahoo acct before they cut your dsl line, phone line,
power, etc ..
 
> Put it right on the customer's premises. If they need 24x365 Internet 
> access, you can always pull additional DSL lines from competing 
> providers. You'll still be saving them a few thousand a month; make sure 
> they know that.

one of the good things about having the dsl at home, there is little/no
regulations about you having a diesel generator at home so you can have
"emergency power" if diesel to 110vac has been thoroughly tested regularly
( just go to home depot, buy one and stock up on some diesel fuel

a car battery + car battery charger would keep a server up and running
for about 12 hrs ... after losing pge power .. using a 12vdc input power
supply instead of 110vac power supply

c ya
alvin



From michael at halligan.org  Thu May 29 22:24:52 2003
From: michael at halligan.org (Michael T. Halligan)
Date: Thu, 29 May 2003 22:24:52 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Recommendations for lowend dedicated server/colo shops
In-Reply-To: <20030530034258.GH39665@anarchy.com>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0305292222300.24126-100000@arrakis.halligan.org>

= On Thu, May 29, 2003 at 08:15:29PM -0700, richard childers / kg6hac wrote: 
= > What's wrong with a locked rack in a locked closet with a DSL
= > circuit and a UPS?
= 
= Latency is a potential issue. 

Depends on the provider really.. Speakeasy uses internap for their network,
great latency.. I've got a 3.0mb/768k link at my warehouse.. I get about 
310kB/s downloads from good sites, makes rsync incremental backups doable
for a couple of my consulting clients .. Total cost $200, plus they gave
me a month free and a playstation 2.. setup time was about 4 days.. Get
a 4 day turnaround from pacbell on ANYTHING..

= Not if the providers are all using the same LEC.
= 
= But, if a customer wants cheap, they can probably live with the
= occasional loss in availability.

If the customer is considering hosting @ their office in general, than that's
a given.



-------------------
Michael T. Halligan
Chief Geek
Halligan Infrastructure Designs.
http://www.halligan.org/
2250 Jerrold Ave #11
San Francisco, CA 94124-1012
(415) 824.4453 - Home/Office
(415) 724.7998 - Mobile



From rsr at inorganic.org  Fri May 30 00:58:27 2003
From: rsr at inorganic.org (Roy S. Rapoport)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 00:58:27 -0700
Subject: HE.Net Quotes? - t1s
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1030529173304.10577F-100000@Maggie.Linux-Consulting.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0305291715340.23263-100000@arrakis.halligan.org> <Pine.LNX.3.96.1030529173304.10577F-100000@Maggie.Linux-Consulting.com>
Message-ID: <20030530075827.GD26256@nag.inorganic.org>

On Thu, May 29, 2003 at 05:42:54PM -0700, Alvin Oga wrote:
> for sdsl, i tried that in the covad/northpoint days and they couldn't get
> it installed the right way ...
> 	- i still monitor a few machines on dsl ... and i see those
> 	puppies go up and down like a yo-yo on a weekly basis
> 
> 	- if it goes down, it could be for a few minutes or few hours
> 
> 	- i don't like having any down time that is not something i turned
> 	off to play with the box

FWIW, I don't know what DSL provider you're monitoring, but they should
be fired.

In 2002, when I was using PacBell as my DSL provider, I had no outages.
In 2003 I switched over to cliq.com and I've had no outages with them
either.  As supporting evidence, I give you
http://stats.inorganic.org/?rtr=MailStats.cfg&xgtype=m&if=MailStats_inout
-- a graph of incoming/outgoing mail messages on my system.  Other than
a few downtimes over the last two weeks that were due to machine
upgrades, you can see that my connectivity was completely uninterrupted,
at least at a granularity I care about.  

If money is not much of an issue, I'd still go for a T1 because 384Kb or
whatever it is that I've got upstream is kinda pathetic, and mostly
because I do think providers take T1 downtimes more seriously if/when
hey happen, but speaking as someone who hosts his own services (SMTP,
DNS, HTTP) and provides services to other people, I've never had to deal
with "oh my God, my network's down" problems anytime in the recent past.

-roy


From alvin at maggie.linux-consulting.com  Fri May 30 02:28:04 2003
From: alvin at maggie.linux-consulting.com (Alvin Oga)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 02:28:04 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: HE.Net Quotes? - t1s - outages
In-Reply-To: <20030530075827.GD26256@nag.inorganic.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1030530020700.17331A-100000@Maggie.Linux-Consulting.com>


hi ya roy

On Fri, 30 May 2003, Roy S. Rapoport wrote:

> On Thu, May 29, 2003 at 05:42:54PM -0700, Alvin Oga wrote:
> 
> FWIW, I don't know what DSL provider you're monitoring, but they should
> be fired.
> 
> In 2002, when I was using PacBell as my DSL provider, I had no outages.
> In 2003 I switched over to cliq.com and I've had no outages with them
> either. 

i think it depends on where the dsl lines are terminated

- downtown sj was very unreliable about 3 years ago, while saratoga
  dsl was very stable
	- redback and pacbell was pointing fingers to each other
	
- now, last year or so, the dsl in saratoga is very unreliable .. weekly 2
  hr outages is not uncommon ..

- another dsl around sj airport was very stable ... but the company went
  poof in the *.com bust

- another dsl in north sj area was stable for 6 months and unstable the
  last 6 months

- while monitoring machines in other countries is fine
	- i (scriptized) monitor all machines at the same time ..
	one after another ... so it's not the monitoring app

most all of these were pacbell dsl w/ pacbell as the isp
( they picked all their network setup/lan/services etc before i showed up

for anything like dns/web ... i would NOT be using dsl ...
and for email, one could use MX records to get around those outage
problems if you like to go chasing after your important new incoming email
you needed an hr ago

> As supporting evidence, I give you
> http://stats.inorganic.org/?rtr=MailStats.cfg&xgtype=m&if=MailStats_inout
> -- a graph of incoming/outgoing mail messages on my system.  Other than

if you've been getting good service... all the better for you

have fun
alvin



From fscked at pacbell.net  Fri May 30 06:25:53 2003
From: fscked at pacbell.net (richard childers / kg6hac)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 06:25:53 -0700
Subject: Recommendations for lowend dedicated server/colo shops
References: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1030529211659.11763C-100000@Maggie.Linux-Consulting.com>
Message-ID: <3ED75BE1.7050005@pacbell.net>

I guess it depends on the closet ... the DSL line (fractional T1 is 
available) ... and the admin.


-- richard



Alvin Oga wrote:

>hi ya
>
>On Thu, 29 May 2003, richard childers / kg6hac wrote:
>
>  
>
>>What's wrong with a locked rack in a locked closet with a DSL circuit 
>>and a UPS?
>>    
>>
>
>( couldn't resist .. nothing wrong but ... for "closet" fun .. )
>
>- no air flow
>- closet collects dust
>- closet is typically a non-locking door
>- typically no outlets in the closet except for one light
>  and one power switch if any
>- you don't get to see pretty red/green/yellow/blue lights 
>  ( unless you use a clear 7'x3' clear plastic door )
>- typically no backside to the closet, to work behind the pc
>  without moving it around
>- you can't sit inside the hallway closet to work
>	( unless it's a huge master bedroom walk-in closet in which
>	( case you would need to get "permission" from your other half
>
>- you can not upload much data over dsl  ( 364K is too slow for me )
>- dsl goes down a lot ... in the middle of the night
>
>  
>
>>Worked for a decade or so (minus DSL) just fine; still does. DSL just 
>>makes it cheaper.
>>    
>>
>
>and lot faster for downloads 
>
>  
>
>>Worried about security? Add an alarm system and a webcam or two.
>>    
>>
>
>i think an alarm is not much use... just makes noises ...
>and the culprit will still take that pc and/or trash it and/or run with or
>without it
>
>after detecting an intruder, an alarm would work if you email a pic of the
>intruder to your yahoo acct before they cut your dsl line, phone line,
>power, etc ..
> 
>  
>
>>Put it right on the customer's premises. If they need 24x365 Internet 
>>access, you can always pull additional DSL lines from competing 
>>providers. You'll still be saving them a few thousand a month; make sure 
>>they know that.
>>    
>>
>
>one of the good things about having the dsl at home, there is little/no
>regulations about you having a diesel generator at home so you can have
>"emergency power" if diesel to 110vac has been thoroughly tested regularly
>( just go to home depot, buy one and stock up on some diesel fuel
>
>a car battery + car battery charger would keep a server up and running
>for about 12 hrs ... after losing pge power .. using a 12vdc input power
>supply instead of 110vac power supply
>
>c ya
>alvin
>
>  
>

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From jxh at jxh.com  Fri May 30 09:28:43 2003
From: jxh at jxh.com (Jim Hickstein)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 11:28:43 -0500
Subject: Network sniffer
Message-ID: <2147483647.1054294123@[10.9.18.6]>

A while ago we had a presentation from Sandstorm about their network 
analyzer that can, among other things, demultiplex TCP streams and do 
things like display images that it plucks out of e.g. gzipped tar files in 
FTP sessions, regardless of TCP port number.  It was actually pretty cool, 
though it was an early version of the product.

They have been in touch with me to say it has been updated, and can now 
handle 200Mbps (it was 10Base-T only back then, IIRC); new pricing, etc.  I 
said I'd pass along the news.  If you're interested in such things, go look 
at www.sandstorm.net.


From rsr at inorganic.org  Fri May 30 10:11:23 2003
From: rsr at inorganic.org (Roy S. Rapoport)
Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 10:11:23 -0700
Subject: Network sniffer
In-Reply-To: <2147483647.1054294123@[10.9.18.6]>
References: <2147483647.1054294123@[10.9.18.6]>
Message-ID: <20030530171122.GB11984@nag.inorganic.org>

On Fri, May 30, 2003 at 11:28:43AM -0500, Jim Hickstein wrote:
> analyzer that can, among other things, demultiplex TCP streams and do 
> things like display images that it plucks out of e.g. gzipped tar files in 
> FTP sessions, regardless of TCP port number.  It was actually pretty cool, 
> though it was an early version of the product.
> 
> They have been in touch with me to say it has been updated, and can now 
> handle 200Mbps (it was 10Base-T only back then, IIRC); new pricing, etc.  I 
> said I'd pass along the news.  If you're interested in such things, go look 
> at www.sandstorm.net.

<Kneejerk type="OSS">
Snort
</Kneejerk>

-roy


From jimd at starshine.org  Tue May 27 15:14:43 2003
From: jimd at starshine.org (jimd at starshine.org)
Date: Tue, 27 May 2003 15:14:43 -0700
Subject: licensed electrical contractors
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1030523213958.12773B-100000@Maggie.Linux-Consulting.com>
References: <Pine.LNX.3.96.1030523213958.12773B-100000@Maggie.Linux-Consulting.com>
Message-ID: <20030527221443.GA17202@mars>

On Fri, May 23, 2003 at 09:45:26PM -0700, Alvin Oga wrote:
 
> hi ya
 
> does anybody have a particular electrical contractor
> they like that have added power panels for your offices ??? 
 
> - i'd like to add some individually metered 110v ac outlets
>   in the office areas ( open areas ) to the main power panel of
>   the bldg
> 	- i would like to drop say 6-10 4-plug outlets
> 	w/ the building owner's permission 
 
> - i understand the power meter is about $100 or so ...
 
> thanx
> alvin

 My father has been an Electrician almost as long as I've been alive
 (over 35 years).  He is licensed and ran his own contracting service
 down in the L.A. area for almost a decade.

--
Jim Dennis