Antispam - empowering employees

Sat Jul 19 11:18:11 PDT 2003

Quoting jimd at starshine.org (jimd at starshine.org):
> On Tue, Jul 15, 2003 at 12:46:47PM -0400, Chuck Yerkes wrote:
...
> > Windows, in a large part, has replaced Unix because people feel
> > that it's approachable and, in a large way, someone with not so
> > much knowledge of computers can put up a Windows Server and install
> > a couple packages and have Exchange for cheap.  They think it
> > scales and is cost effective and they are wrong, but
...
>  I'm not sure that MS Windows ever "replaced" UNIX.  MS operating
>  systems (from PC-DOS through a latest MS Windows 2003) became the 
>  marketshare leader primarily by opening up new markets (or conversely 
>  by riding on the coat tails of the new markets created by microcomputers 
>  in general and PC compatibles in particular).

Oh I strongly disagree.  From floors of desktop unix to floors of
desktop Windows and herds of windows admins, I disagree.
>From racks and racks of Windows boxes providing email, DNS, DHCP(-like)
and LDAP-like services, I disagree.

>  Micros were the revolution.  They had to run *something* and MS-DOS
>  was the thing they came with and was the cheapest.  (The prices on 
>  CPM/86 and the UCSD p-system were pretty high comparatively).

Ummm, no by my recollection.  An XT was $5k or so while an Apple ///
was $2500.

>  hardware informing them that they *would* include MS-Windows 3.x with
>  every machine (the thinly veiled threat was: or else your copies of 

As an owner of Windows 2.0 (runtime), I'll recall that this was
hardly in a vacuum or out of the blue.  That 3.x was written for
80286 and, as usual, shipped YEARS late when a 386 binary would
have been far faster/better...

3.1 was the first usable version.  And it broke the hold of Lotus
and Wordperfect on the platforms' users (As a VMS programmer and
Mac user, I was appalled when I saw Word for DOS - VisiCalc was
cleaner and smoother as a program).

I'll also recall Lotus, WP, and Ashton Tate announcing support for
GEM on DOS to get SOME windowing.  MS announced that their new
"Windows" software would be out "really soon."  24 months, soon,
but the pre-nouncement killed GEM/x86.

> 
>  But ultimately people are going to be driven to Linux because it's
>  free.  They don't have to have any (outside) permission or license to

I find that's absolutely NOT the case in business.  And larger
business created the DOS/PC market.  If anything, Linux is replacing
Sun's and other Unixes.  I've yet to see it stand in for a Windows
server.

>  use it; they don't have to file a purchasing order, they don't have to
>  wade through vendor BS.  For the jobs that it's good at you can just
>  borrow or burn a CD --- pop it in a drive and go.

And you can't get 4-hour support coverage, and a bug allows management
NO place to call to place blame and pass the ball to someone else.
No, I just got 3 E450s passed to me over a DL360 running FreeBSD
because "we need production support on these, not source code."

Friends who work at Yahoo, EBay and elsewhere are there as
FreeBSD committers.  The $150k is costs in total for a person
buys LOTS of support contracts.

Look, I ran NetBSD on my Mac for a long long time.  I'm likely
going BACK to it because this 300MHz Mac is a lot faster and more
useful with a BSD kernel and X Windows than with Darwin + Aqua +
mystery layers.

But I'm not seeing that "Open Source" is inevitable. OS acquisition
costs are negligible over a machines lifetime.  If it costs me
a total of $10k/year to feed/house/power/cool/backup/run a machine
in a data center each year, $40 or $800 for the OS is a blip in a
3-5 year lifespan.

Unix folks have to stop pissing on each other.  I see linux zealots
dumping on each other for distro choices, for christs sake.  RH vs
Suse vs. Debian vs 200 others.  You think this doesn't raise concerns
in managers?  Microsoft has one polished line (it's a lie, but it's
convincing and soothing).

It's like the pretty girl going out with the dumb jock.
Yes, there will be satisfaction in 10 years when he's still the
assistant managers at the car lot, but until then, you're out in
the cold.

In the end, we'll be right.  But Neil Stephenson is right: to management,
it's a bunch of lunatics in a vacant lot slapping together cars that
they say get 200MPG, will never rust or fall apart and replacement parts
are free.