From david at catwhisker.org Wed Apr 9 06:01:01 2003 From: david at catwhisker.org (David Wolfskill) Date: Wed, 9 Apr 2003 06:01:01 -0700 (PDT) Subject: RIP: Anita Borg Message-ID: <200304091301.h39D114Z050456@bunrab.catwhisker.org> Just picked up today's Murky News, and saw that Anita Borg has died. Among other things, we can thank her for a fair amount of the progress to date in involving women in technology. She will certainly be missed. Peace, david -- David H. Wolfskill david at catwhisker.org Based on what I have seen to date, the use of Microsoft products is not consistent with reliability. I recommend FreeBSD for reliable systems. From star at baylisa.org Thu Apr 10 13:20:17 2003 From: star at baylisa.org (Heather Stern) Date: Thu, 10 Apr 2003 13:20:17 -0700 (PDT) Subject: BayLISA next Thurs (4/17) 7:30 pm Message-ID: <200304102020.h3AKKHSu005988@www.baylisa.org> Hello folks. Not this week, but the following one, will be the monthly meeting of BayLISA, the sysadmins of the Silicon Valley and greater Bay Area. We'll be hearing from ............. Len Shustek (http://www.johnsflowers.com) Chairman Computer History Museum (http://www.computerhistory.org/) The topic is ...................... A Romp Through the Early History of Computers -or- 50 years of computing The Date: 17 April 2002 The Time: 7:30 pm The Place: Apple Campus "De Anza Building Three" The lot with blue apples Directions at www.baylisa.org/locations/current.html Membership specials ................ Make a special point of telling your friends and bringing them along. If you're a member of BayLISA, and you bring a new member - never been in BayLISA before - who joins at the meeting, we will update your own membership for a year. What a deal. This is only good for Student memberships if both members are students. Bring your qualifying Student ID. Corporate memberships are of course also gleefully accepted, anytime. Together, our members and our corporate sponsors help fund bringing in great speakers, and occasional special events like hosting hospitality parties at USENIX conferences, or the mid-Summer BayLISA Picnic. Request For Cookies? .............. tell us what you think What do you folks think of the snacks layout we have been providing? Please let us know. This month we will have catering by the wife of Stweart Hersey, one of our board members :) Speaker Abstract and Bio ........... Intel and Microsoft did not invent the computer -- there was computing before PCs. This talk will highlight some of the colorful people and strange machines from the days when computers were big enough to walk inside, not small enough to wear. This is a rich 50-year history that needs to be preserved. You will also hear a little about the ongoing project to build a proper Computer History Museum in Silicon Valley. Len Shustek's educational background includes computer science degrees from Stanford, Physics from Polytechnic University in Brooklyn, amd having been assistant professor of computer science at Carnegie Mellon. He co-founded Nestar Systems Inc in 1979 (an early producer of client/server systems), Network General in 1986 (noted for "The Sniffer(tm)" and other network analysis tools before merging with McAfee Associates and PGP, becoming Network Associates). Shustek is now semi-retired and serves on the boards of several high-tech startups and three non-profit organizations, including the Computer History Museum and serving as a partner at VenCraft, an "angel" centure capital firm. He teaches occasionally as a consulting professor at Stanford University. -* Heather Stern * Arch (secretary) BayLISA Board * http://www.baylisa.org/ *- From david at catwhisker.org Sun Apr 13 05:53:22 2003 From: david at catwhisker.org (David Wolfskill) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 05:53:22 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Maybe BayLISA needs a new mailing list Message-ID: <200304131253.h3DCrMnG068730@bunrab.catwhisker.org> After the recent flurry on baylisa-jobs and seeing various folks' reactions to same, it seems to me that something that might be helpful is a list to allow folks to "blow off steam" from time to time. I suggest a name such as baylisa-chat (or just "chat at baylisa.org"). Thus, the main BayLISA lists would be: * baylisa@ intended for BayLISA members; intended to be oriented toward technical matters. * baylisa-jobs@ intended for BayLISA members and those who might be in a position to hire folks who are likely to be BayLISA members (whether on contract or as employees). * blw@ intended for BayLISA members (and certain others) who are interested in the matters discussed by the BayLISA Board of Directors. * chat@ intended for BayLISA members; a catch-all for anything not listed above. Tangential discussions from the other lists would be appropriate to divert to this list. I would, of course, prefer that if the list is created, that someone else (other than postmaster@) would be the "list owner" (and thus deal with attempts at spamming and the like). Thoughts? Peace, david (postmaster at baylisa.org) -- David H. Wolfskill david at catwhisker.org Based on what I have seen to date, the use of Microsoft products is not consistent with reliability. I recommend FreeBSD for reliable systems. From extasia at extasia.org Sun Apr 13 07:24:55 2003 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 07:24:55 -0700 Subject: [baylisa] Re: Maybe BayLISA needs a new mailing list In-Reply-To: <200304131253.h3DCrMnG068730@bunrab.catwhisker.org>; from david@catwhisker.org on Sun, Apr 13, 2003 at 05:53:22AM -0700 References: <200304131253.h3DCrMnG068730@bunrab.catwhisker.org> Message-ID: <20030413072455.A15066@gerasimov.net> Greetings! At 2003/04/13/05:53 -0700 David Wolfskill wrote: > * chat@ intended for BayLISA members; a catch-all for anything > not listed above. Tangential discussions from the > other lists would be appropriate to divert to this list. dc-sage has had a dc-sage-chat list (in addition to the dc-sage list, which is for tech discussions) for years. The only inappropriate posts on dc-sage-chat are flames or any other posts in which members abuse members. I think every list whose group experiences (or fosters) any kind of community should have a -chat (or chat@) list. David -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. *** Come to sig-beer-west! http://www.extasia.org/sig-beer-west/ Unix sysadmin available: http://www.extasia.org/resume/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 232 bytes Desc: not available URL: From strata at virtual.net Sun Apr 13 07:41:23 2003 From: strata at virtual.net (Strata Rose Chalup) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 10:41:23 -0400 Subject: Maybe BayLISA needs a new mailing list References: <200304131253.h3DCrMnG068730@bunrab.catwhisker.org> Message-ID: <3E997712.35EB1C7@virtual.net> David, This is a great summation of the main mailing lists-- you're always on top of things! I think having chat at baylisa.org for general discussions is a good thing, since folks seem reluctant to post to the main baylisa@ alias unless they have some serious technical question. I suspect that the folks who'd be interested in more informal mailing list socializing with other BayLISA folks would be put off by the sort of long discussions going on in baylisa-jobs right now. What about making baylisa-jobs specifically for "announcements" rather than just naming an intended audience? Jobs offered, jobs sought for, things of interest to job seekers, etc. Then create a parallel list, baylisa-jobs-chat (or baylisa-jobs-d), for discussions related to job seeking in general or triggered by specific postings that had been sent to the baylisa-jobs list. What do you think? cheers, Strata David Wolfskill wrote: > > After the recent flurry on baylisa-jobs and seeing various folks' > reactions to same, it seems to me that something that might be > helpful is a list to allow folks to "blow off steam" from time to > time. > > I suggest a name such as baylisa-chat (or just "chat at baylisa.org"). > > Thus, the main BayLISA lists would be: > > * baylisa@ intended for BayLISA members; intended to be oriented > toward technical matters. > > * baylisa-jobs@ intended for BayLISA members and those who might be > in a position to hire folks who are likely to be > BayLISA members (whether on contract or as employees). > > * blw@ intended for BayLISA members (and certain others) who > are interested in the matters discussed by the BayLISA > Board of Directors. > > * chat@ intended for BayLISA members; a catch-all for anything > not listed above. Tangential discussions from the > other lists would be appropriate to divert to this list. > > I would, of course, prefer that if the list is created, that someone > else (other than postmaster@) would be the "list owner" (and thus > deal with attempts at spamming and the like). > > Thoughts? > > Peace, > david (postmaster at baylisa.org) > -- > David H. Wolfskill david at catwhisker.org > Based on what I have seen to date, the use of Microsoft products is not > consistent with reliability. I recommend FreeBSD for reliable systems. -- ======================================================================== Strata Rose Chalup [KF6NBZ] strata "@" virtual.net VirtualNet Consulting http://www.virtual.net/ ** Project Management & Architecture for ISP/ASP Systems Integration ** ========================================================================= From chuck+baylisa at snew.com Sun Apr 13 10:01:36 2003 From: chuck+baylisa at snew.com (Chuck Yerkes) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 13:01:36 -0400 Subject: Maybe BayLISA needs a new mailing list In-Reply-To: <3E997712.35EB1C7@virtual.net> References: <200304131253.h3DCrMnG068730@bunrab.catwhisker.org> <3E997712.35EB1C7@virtual.net> Message-ID: <20030413170136.GA19952@snew.com> I think modern technology has given us better forums for threaded conversations than a single mail list. between slashcode format boards and zope and this new fangled "net news" thing, we could probably come up with something better. (and it's not like the DC area, which claims to be the heart of the Internet, really innovates anything :). Quoting Strata Rose Chalup (strata at virtual.net): > > David, > > This is a great summation of the main mailing lists-- you're > always on top of things! > > I think having chat at baylisa.org for general discussions is > a good thing, since folks seem reluctant to post to the main > baylisa@ alias unless they have some serious technical question. > I suspect that the folks who'd be interested in more informal > mailing list socializing with other BayLISA folks would be put > off by the sort of long discussions going on in baylisa-jobs > right now. > > What about making baylisa-jobs specifically for "announcements" > rather than just naming an intended audience? Jobs offered, > jobs sought for, things of interest to job seekers, etc. Then > create a parallel list, baylisa-jobs-chat (or baylisa-jobs-d), > for discussions related to job seeking in general or triggered > by specific postings that had been sent to the baylisa-jobs list. > > What do you think? > > cheers, > Strata > > David Wolfskill wrote: > > > > After the recent flurry on baylisa-jobs and seeing various folks' > > reactions to same, it seems to me that something that might be > > helpful is a list to allow folks to "blow off steam" from time to > > time. > > > > I suggest a name such as baylisa-chat (or just "chat at baylisa.org"). > > > > Thus, the main BayLISA lists would be: > > > > * baylisa@ intended for BayLISA members; intended to be oriented > > toward technical matters. > > > > * baylisa-jobs@ intended for BayLISA members and those who might be > > in a position to hire folks who are likely to be > > BayLISA members (whether on contract or as employees). > > > > * blw@ intended for BayLISA members (and certain others) who > > are interested in the matters discussed by the BayLISA > > Board of Directors. > > > > * chat@ intended for BayLISA members; a catch-all for anything > > not listed above. Tangential discussions from the > > other lists would be appropriate to divert to this list. > > > > I would, of course, prefer that if the list is created, that someone > > else (other than postmaster@) would be the "list owner" (and thus > > deal with attempts at spamming and the like). > > > > Thoughts? > > > > Peace, > > david (postmaster at baylisa.org) > > -- > > David H. Wolfskill david at catwhisker.org > > Based on what I have seen to date, the use of Microsoft products is not > > consistent with reliability. I recommend FreeBSD for reliable systems. > > -- > ======================================================================== > Strata Rose Chalup [KF6NBZ] strata "@" virtual.net > VirtualNet Consulting http://www.virtual.net/ > ** Project Management & Architecture for ISP/ASP Systems Integration ** > ========================================================================= From ulf at Alameda.net Sun Apr 13 10:34:12 2003 From: ulf at Alameda.net (Ulf Zimmermann) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 10:34:12 -0700 Subject: Maybe BayLISA needs a new mailing list In-Reply-To: <20030413170136.GA19952@snew.com>; from chuck+baylisa@snew.com on Sun, Apr 13, 2003 at 01:01:36PM -0400 References: <200304131253.h3DCrMnG068730@bunrab.catwhisker.org> <3E997712.35EB1C7@virtual.net> <20030413170136.GA19952@snew.com> Message-ID: <20030413103412.E92807@seven.alameda.net> On Sun, Apr 13, 2003 at 01:01:36PM -0400, Chuck Yerkes wrote: > I think modern technology has given us better > forums for threaded conversations than a single > mail list. between slashcode format boards and > zope and this new fangled "net news" thing, we > could probably come up with something better. > (and it's not like the DC area, which claims to > be the heart of the Internet, really innovates > anything :). > > Quoting Strata Rose Chalup (strata at virtual.net): > > > > David, > > > > This is a great summation of the main mailing lists-- you're > > always on top of things! > > > > I think having chat at baylisa.org for general discussions is > > a good thing, since folks seem reluctant to post to the main > > baylisa@ alias unless they have some serious technical question. > > I suspect that the folks who'd be interested in more informal > > mailing list socializing with other BayLISA folks would be put > > off by the sort of long discussions going on in baylisa-jobs > > right now. > > > > What about making baylisa-jobs specifically for "announcements" > > rather than just naming an intended audience? Jobs offered, > > jobs sought for, things of interest to job seekers, etc. Then > > create a parallel list, baylisa-jobs-chat (or baylisa-jobs-d), > > for discussions related to job seeking in general or triggered > > by specific postings that had been sent to the baylisa-jobs list. > > > > What do you think? > > > > cheers, > > Strata > > > > David Wolfskill wrote: > > > > > > After the recent flurry on baylisa-jobs and seeing various folks' > > > reactions to same, it seems to me that something that might be > > > helpful is a list to allow folks to "blow off steam" from time to > > > time. > > > > > > I suggest a name such as baylisa-chat (or just "chat at baylisa.org"). > > > > > > Thus, the main BayLISA lists would be: > > > > > > * baylisa@ intended for BayLISA members; intended to be oriented > > > toward technical matters. > > > > > > * baylisa-jobs@ intended for BayLISA members and those who might be > > > in a position to hire folks who are likely to be > > > BayLISA members (whether on contract or as employees). > > > > > > * blw@ intended for BayLISA members (and certain others) who > > > are interested in the matters discussed by the BayLISA > > > Board of Directors. > > > > > > * chat@ intended for BayLISA members; a catch-all for anything > > > not listed above. Tangential discussions from the > > > other lists would be appropriate to divert to this list. > > > > > > I would, of course, prefer that if the list is created, that someone > > > else (other than postmaster@) would be the "list owner" (and thus > > > deal with attempts at spamming and the like). > > > > > > Thoughts? I am already running a message board for a gaming guild, it would be an easy thing to set another one up for BayLisa. -- Regards, Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-865-0204 You can find my resume at: http://seven.Alameda.net/~ulf/resume.html From gwen at reptiles.org Sun Apr 13 10:55:56 2003 From: gwen at reptiles.org (Gwendolynn ferch Elydyr) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 13:55:56 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Maybe BayLISA needs a new mailing list In-Reply-To: <20030413103412.E92807@seven.alameda.net> Message-ID: <20030413135208.S2489-100000@iguana.reptiles.org> On Sun, 13 Apr 2003, Ulf Zimmermann wrote: > On Sun, Apr 13, 2003 at 01:01:36PM -0400, Chuck Yerkes wrote: > > I think modern technology has given us better > > forums for threaded conversations than a single > > mail list. between slashcode format boards and > > zope and this new fangled "net news" thing, we > > could probably come up with something better. > > (and it's not like the DC area, which claims to > > be the heart of the Internet, really innovates > > anything :). <68 lines snipped for improved reading> Please do trim your quotes. > I am already running a message board for a gaming guild, it would be > an easy thing to set another one up for BayLisa. IMHO message boards are both awkward and annoying. It takes me an average of about 5 minutes to do a quick scan of my email, and check interesting messages. It takes easily three times that length of time, or more to check through a web-based forum. Overall, they remind me strongly of a mailing list where absolutely nobody trims their quotes, and the average reply consists of several messages quoted in their entirety, with a line-or-two at the bottom. It also functions poorly on text-based devices. In other words, awkward, and difficult to gain any benefit from. cheers! ========================================================================== "A cat spends her life conflicted between a deep, passionate and profound desire for fish and an equally deep, passionate and profound desire to avoid getting wet. This is the defining metaphor of my life right now." From dannyman at toldme.com Sun Apr 13 10:58:17 2003 From: dannyman at toldme.com (Danny Howard) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 10:58:17 -0700 Subject: Slashcode and Zope!! In-Reply-To: <20030413170136.GA19952@snew.com> References: <200304131253.h3DCrMnG068730@bunrab.catwhisker.org> <3E997712.35EB1C7@virtual.net> <20030413170136.GA19952@snew.com> Message-ID: <20030413175816.GP23975@pianosa.catch22.org> On Sun, Apr 13, 2003 at 01:01:36PM -0400, Chuck Yerkes wrote: > I think modern technology has given us better > forums for threaded conversations than a single > mail list. between slashcode format boards and > zope and this new fangled "net news" thing, we > could probably come up with something better. > (and it's not like the DC area, which claims to > be the heart of the Internet, really innovates > anything :). If you want the curmedgeons to join in you'd better write an e-mail gateway. I had this delusion when I got on the Internet that my days of learning proprietary message interfaces on each different isolated BBS I would visit were over. Then they invented CGI. Now, I've mostly gotten over my misguided idealism, but I would suggest that if you want the BayLISA crowd to jump to a new messaging paradigm simply to kibbutz with other SysAdmins, then you'll want to offer something better than the possibility of kludging something together with slashcode and Zope. Slashcode and Zope ... you were being facetious, right? It must have flown over my head. It must be because I still cringe at the thought of ditching perfectly good-old e-mail and doing things in Mozilla, which doesn't even have vi keybindings. You get that metaphor, right? Things fly over your head when you're cringing? HA! I slay me. But the vi keybindings just create confusion, especially for the embedded LISP crowd. By the way, DON'T FORGET TO DO YOUR TAXES AND SEND THEM OUT BY MONDAY!! Especially if the recession has been on your case, Uncle Sam will give you money. And money is really useful if the recession has been on your case. Love, -danny -- http://dannyman.toldme.com/ From claw at kanga.nu Sun Apr 13 12:17:40 2003 From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 12:17:40 -0700 Subject: Maybe BayLISA needs a new mailing list In-Reply-To: Message from Chuck Yerkes of "Sun, 13 Apr 2003 13:01:36 EDT." <20030413170136.GA19952@snew.com> References: <200304131253.h3DCrMnG068730@bunrab.catwhisker.org> <3E997712.35EB1C7@virtual.net> <20030413170136.GA19952@snew.com> Message-ID: <26930.1050261460@kanga.nu> On Sun, 13 Apr 2003 13:01:36 -0400 Chuck Yerkes wrote: > I think modern technology has given us better forums for threaded > conversations than a single mail list. Simply, I disagree with some vehemence. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw at kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live. From rsr at inorganic.org Sun Apr 13 12:36:08 2003 From: rsr at inorganic.org (Roy S. Rapoport) Date: Sun, 13 Apr 2003 12:36:08 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Maybe BayLISA needs a new mailing list In-Reply-To: <26930.1050261460@kanga.nu> Message-ID: On Sun, 13 Apr 2003, J C Lawrence wrote: > On Sun, 13 Apr 2003 13:01:36 -0400 > Chuck Yerkes wrote: > > > I think modern technology has given us better forums for threaded > > conversations than a single mail list. > > Simply, I disagree with some vehemence. Though it's worth noting that modern technology *has* given us a better client for threaded email conversation than Mail. -roy From star at baylisa.org Mon Apr 14 01:27:11 2003 From: star at baylisa.org (Heather Stern) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 01:27:11 -0700 (PDT) Subject: BayLISA this Thurs (4/17) 7:30 pm Message-ID: <200304140827.h3E8RBXV010239@www.baylisa.org> Open up that planner, get it into your PDA, or at least make sure that if you want to go you're not triple booked against going to this month's meeting... BayLISA meets this week! ...the third Thursday of the month, so if you're reading this on Thursday that'd be tonight :D For the calendar challenged that's April 17th... Topic - A Romp Through the Early History of Computing Speaker - Len Shustek When - 7:30 pm until oh, 9:30 or so... expect to get out around 10. Where - Apple's "De Anza Building Three" 10500 North De Anza Blvd Cupertino Actually, you could show up around 7 pm if you feel like; we don't bite. Hmm, I'm having difficulty thinking of the nearly frozen mainframe level of a building as "Romper Room" but I think this will be a fun trip through history. .... don't forget our New Membesrhip drive! BayLISA members (or past-members) bringing us a new member (never been a BayLISA member before) get their own membership this year, or 1 year renewed. De Anza is a large major thoroughfare. The nearest ordinary cross streets are De Anza and Mariani (also known as the entrance to Apple Campus) - the nearest major cross street would be Stevens Creek Blvd. From 280/De Anza exit -- turn southward, the next light is Mariani. If you pass Stevens Creek you definitely went too far. From 85 -- well, you *could* exit De Anza and drive a distance north - past Stevens Creek by a couple of blocks - but it's much more efficient to use the 85/280 juncture. Assuming you exit 280 at De Anza, then... 1. turn LEFT at Mariani (into the rightmost lane) 2. immediately turn RIGHT into the blue-apple parking lot 3. Go around the building to its right and park on its southern side so you are near the auditorium we're in. A bunch of us like to go out afterwards for foodstuff. The good places open that late and close enough are pretty limited after we consider how long it takes folk to pack up. Our choices are BJ's up the street a short distance, and the Duke of Edinburgh pub on Wolfe (one freeway esit, great ambience to go with our BayLISA pint glasses). Their grills close at 11, so we'll be wanting to estimate how many people will be going early enough to call ahead and have the chef stay on, just in case. -* Heather Stern * Arch (secretary) BayLISA Board * http://www.baylisa.org/ *- From bill at linuxcare.com Mon Apr 14 07:00:56 2003 From: bill at linuxcare.com (Bill Schoolcraft) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 07:00:56 -0700 Subject: Maybe BayLISA needs a new mailing list References: <200304131253.h3DCrMnG068730@bunrab.catwhisker.org> <3E997712.35EB1C7@virtual.net> Message-ID: <3E9ABF18.8B0B752@linuxcare.com> Strata Rose Chalup wrote: > > David, > > This is a great summation of the main mailing lists-- you're > always on top of things! > > I think having chat at baylisa.org for general discussions is > a good thing, since folks seem reluctant to post to the main > baylisa@ alias Yes, thanks for good idea. There has been a few times I wanted to post a question but it didn't seem "serious" enough to warrant troubling the list. -- Bill Schoolcraft Linuxcare Client Services 650 Townsend Street San Francisco, CA 94103 SF (415) 354-4878 http://www.linuxcare.com From david at catwhisker.org Mon Apr 14 07:25:27 2003 From: david at catwhisker.org (David Wolfskill) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 07:25:27 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Maybe BayLISA needs a new mailing list In-Reply-To: <3E9ABF18.8B0B752@linuxcare.com> Message-ID: <200304141425.h3EEPRTY072715@bunrab.catwhisker.org> >Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 07:00:56 -0700 >From: Bill Schoolcraft >> I think having chat at baylisa.org for general discussions is >> a good thing, since folks seem reluctant to post to the main >> baylisa@ alias >Yes, thanks for good idea. There has been a few times I wanted to post a >question but it didn't seem "serious" enough to warrant troubling the >list. As with many ideas, it wasn't really original with me: other communities have lists directed toward such things; ref. freebsd.org. I'll be monitoring email sporadically for the next few days (niece & family visiting from back east); if we can get a reasonable facsimile of consensus on a course of action, I expect it to be implemented shortly thereafter. Peace, david (links to my resume at http://www.catwhisker.org/~david) -- David H. Wolfskill david at catwhisker.org Based on what I have seen to date, the use of Microsoft products is not consistent with reliability. I recommend FreeBSD for reliable systems. From afactor at afactor.com Mon Apr 14 11:05:07 2003 From: afactor at afactor.com (Alan Factor) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 11:05:07 -0700 Subject: Maybe BayLISA needs a new mailing list References: <200304141425.h3EEPRTY072715@bunrab.catwhisker.org> Message-ID: <3E9AF853.5060907@afactor.com> I agree: adding a baylisa-chat alias for less-technical discussions is a good idea. 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Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 2303 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: From star at starshine.org Mon Apr 14 12:19:30 2003 From: star at starshine.org (Heather Stern) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:19:30 -0700 Subject: Maybe BayLISA needs a new mailing list In-Reply-To: <200304131253.h3DCrMnG068730@bunrab.catwhisker.org> References: <200304131253.h3DCrMnG068730@bunrab.catwhisker.org> Message-ID: <20030414191930.GE1169@starshine.org> On Sun, Apr 13, 2003 at 05:53:22AM -0700, David Wolfskill wrote: > After the recent flurry on baylisa-jobs and seeing various folks' > reactions to same, it seems to me that something that might be > helpful is a list to allow folks to "blow off steam" from time to > time. > > I suggest a name such as baylisa-chat (or just "chat at baylisa.org"). > > Thus, the main BayLISA lists would be: > > * baylisa@ intended for BayLISA members; intended to be oriented > toward technical matters. > > * baylisa-jobs@ intended for BayLISA members and those who might be > in a position to hire folks who are likely to be > BayLISA members (whether on contract or as employees). > > * blw@ intended for BayLISA members (and certain others) who > are interested in the matters discussed by the BayLISA > Board of Directors. > > * chat@ intended for BayLISA members; a catch-all for anything > not listed above. Tangential discussions from the > other lists would be appropriate to divert to this list. My heart quails at the idea of declaring a fresh "generic chat" list, but if you really feel that baylisa@ and baylisa-jobs@ can be restored to their more focus'd topics by this method, then I support the concept. If we are adding lists I'd also like to see an announce@ added - certainly not because I want another place to post things (bleh) but because it's been requested a few times, and it would be easy to make the regular baylisa@ list a recipient to it. This would allow people who don't want to deal with any chat, even technical, to bail from it and just get our meeting and event announcements. The next question would be if we should accept other events of sysadmin interest as announcements there, eg. SIG BEER WEST, ACCU, various user group meetings. > I would, of course, prefer that if the list is created, that someone > else (other than postmaster@) would be the "list owner" (and thus > deal with attempts at spamming and the like). > > Thoughts? I don't have the bandwidth to become a moderator, but the idea sounds like it has good potential. Would a thread that has been pushed off the main or jobs list cause its members to be temporarily moderated so that all the stray threads could be directed to the correct list? Would that get us into censorship trouble? (never minding people who ooze trouble on their own - I mean, would it change our legal state with regard to list content.) -* Heather Stern * Arch (secretary) BayLISA Board * http://www.baylisa.org/ *- From david at catwhisker.org Mon Apr 14 14:19:10 2003 From: david at catwhisker.org (David Wolfskill) Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 14:19:10 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Maybe BayLISA needs a new mailing list In-Reply-To: <20030414191930.GE1169@starshine.org> Message-ID: <200304142119.h3ELJAsX074348@bunrab.catwhisker.org> >Date: Mon, 14 Apr 2003 12:19:30 -0700 >From: star at starshine.org (Heather Stern) >My heart quails at the idea of declaring a fresh "generic chat" list, but >if you really feel that baylisa@ and baylisa-jobs@ can be restored to >their more focus'd topics by this method, then I support the concept. :-} >If we are adding lists I'd also like to see an announce@ added - >certainly not because I want another place to post things (bleh) but >because it's been requested a few times, Sure; no problem. >and it would be easy to make the regular baylisa@ list a recipient to it. I'd rather not do that. Folks who want to be subscribed to BayLISA lists have, historically, needed to subscribe themselves -- we have (generally?) not automatically subscribed (or unsubscribed) anyone. (This is not to say that this model is perfect; merely that changing the model is a bit more of a conceptual leap than tweaking the mix of currently-instantiated lists.) >This would allow people who don't want to deal with any chat, even >technical, to bail from it and just get our meeting and event announcements. Yup. >The next question would be if we should accept other events of sysadmin >interest as announcements there, eg. SIG BEER WEST, ACCU, various user >group meetings. That sounds more like a policy, and therefore a Board, issue. :-} >> I would, of course, prefer that if the list is created, that someone >> else (other than postmaster@) would be the "list owner" (and thus >> deal with attempts at spamming and the like). >I don't have the bandwidth to become a moderator, but the idea sounds like >it has good potential. I have a volunteer for -chat at . -announce@ would also need an owner. >Would a thread that has been pushed off the main or jobs list cause its >members to be temporarily moderated so that all the stray threads could >be directed to the correct list? Would that get us into censorship >trouble? (never minding people who ooze trouble on their own - I mean, >would it change our legal state with regard to list content.) Once the new lists are set up, I would be inclined to let folks exercise self-restraint as much as possible, and if that fails, moderate the list. That will undoubtedly annoy some folks (whose "pain threshholds" are lower than mine), but that is somewhat of a risk we take by having a relatively freely-accessible list. Peace, david (postmaster at baylisa.org) -- David H. Wolfskill david at catwhisker.org Based on what I have seen to date, the use of Microsoft products is not consistent with reliability. I recommend FreeBSD for reliable systems. From bl at unixshaman.com Tue Apr 15 17:16:13 2003 From: bl at unixshaman.com (Brett G Lemoine) Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 17:16:13 -0700 Subject: Cyclades terminal server discounts? In-Reply-To: <20030218011245.GA3076@snew.com> References: <20030216122353.A8937@gerasimov.net> <20030218011245.GA3076@snew.com> Message-ID: <2147483647.1050426972@[192.168.5.94]> Has anyone managed to get a discount on equipment from Cyclades? If so, would you mind sharing with me (privately or publicly) what your discount was? I want to know how hard I can press our sales rep before giving in. Alternately, if anyone knows of a good reseller that can get a good price, that'd be cool too. thanks, bl From extasia at extasia.org Wed Apr 16 11:55:26 2003 From: extasia at extasia.org (David Alban) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 11:55:26 -0700 Subject: [baylisa] SIG-BEER-WEST this Saturday 4/19 in San Francisco Message-ID: <20030416115526.A15411@gerasimov.net> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 SIG-beer-west Saturday, April 19, 2003 at 6:00pm San Francisco, CA Beer. Mental stimulation. This event: * Saturday, 04/19/2003, 6:00pm, at the Toronado, San Francisco Coming events (third Saturdays): * Saturday, 05/17/2003, 6:00pm * Saturday, 06/21/2003, 6:00pm * Saturday, 07/19/2003, 6:00pm * Saturday, 08/16/2003, 6:00pm San Francisco's next social event for computer sysadmins and their friends, sig-beer-west, will take place on Saturday, April 19, 2003 at the [1]Toronado in San Francisco, CA. The Toronado has an impressive selection of [2]draught and [3]bottled beer. Festivities will start at 6:00pm and continue until we've all left. The Toronado has an excellent selection of beer, but no food. It is perfectly okay to score food from neighboring establishments and bring it back to the Toronado to eat. Also, after we are all full with beer we may roam off to a nearby restaurant. [1] http://www.toronado.com/ [2] http://www.toronado.com/draft.htm [3] http://www.toronado.com/bottles.htm Everyone is welcome at this event. We mean it! Please feel free to forward this information and to invite friends, co-workers, and others who might enjoy lifting a glass with interesting folks from all over the place. (O.K., you do have to be of legal drinking age to attend.) For directions to the Toronado, please use the [4]excellent directions at their website. When you show up at the Toronado, you should look for some kind of home made sig-beer-west sign. We will try to make it obvious who we are. :-) [4] http://www.toronado.com/map.htm NOTE: Check the tables in the back room for us if you don't see us at the tables by the bar. The back room is back and to the left. Can't come this month? Mark your calendar for next month. sig-beer-west is always on the third Saturday of the month. Any Comments, Questions, or Suggestions of Things to Do Later on That Evening ... email [5]Fiid or [6]David. [5] fiid .at. fiid .dot. net [6] extasia .at. extasia .dot. org There is now a sig-beer-west mailing list. To subscribe, send an email with "subscribe" in the body to . sig-beer-west FAQ 1. Q: Your announcement says "computer sysadmins and their friends". How do I know if I'm a friend of a computer sysadmin? I don't even know what one is. A: You're a friend of a computer sysadmin if you can find the sig-beer-west sign at this month's sig-beer-west event. 2. Q: I'm not really a beer person. In fact I'm interested in hanging out, but not in drinking. Would I be welcome? A: Absolutely! The point is to hang out with fun, interesting folks. Please do join us. 3. Q: Is parking difficult around the Toronado, like maybe I should factor this into my travel time? A: Yes. ______________________________________________________________________ sig-beer-west was started in February 2002 when a couple Washington, D.C. based systems administrators who moved to the San Francisco Bay area wanted to continue a [7]dc-sage tradition, sig-beer, which is described in dc-sage web space as: SIG-beer, as in "Special Interest Group - Beer" ala ACM, or as in "send the BEER signal to that process". The original SIG-beer gathering takes place in Washington DC, usually on the first Saturday night of the month. [7] http://www.dc-sage.org/ ______________________________________________________________________ Last modified: $Date: 2003/03/28 05:49:49 $ - -- Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors. *** Come to sig-beer-west! http://www.extasia.org/sig-beer-west/ Unix sysadmin available: http://www.extasia.org/resume/ -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: For info see http://www.gnupg.org iD8DBQE+naUjPh0M9c/OpdARAsQDAJ9j06o+U1cJxtCS+HSyoAGfvc0ChgCgp0KK JknHJTzu6wkn9LlF1aoRJvU= =OnLr -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- From ulf at Alameda.net Wed Apr 16 16:34:53 2003 From: ulf at Alameda.net (Ulf Zimmermann) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 16:34:53 -0700 Subject: RedHat Kickstart question Message-ID: <20030416163453.L92807@seven.alameda.net> Hello everyone. I got a question someone probably has an answer for on this list. Working on automating system installs. Everything on these machines is the same, with the exception of 2 things. IP address and hostname. Machines get static IP assigned via DHCP. Can I find out, like in the %pre section or so, what the IP is, so that I can use it in this line: #Use static networking network --bootproto static --ip 10.200.1.51 --netmask 255.255.255.0 --gatewa... And the other section is in %post, where based on the hostname I would like to copy a different set of files over, simular like this: if [-f /mnt/tmpmnt/ssh/$HOST/ssh_host_dsa_key]; then /bin/cp /mnt/tmpmnt/ssh/$HOST/* /etc/ssh fi Any tips ? -- Regards, Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-865-0204 You can find my resume at: http://seven.Alameda.net/~ulf/resume.html From star at baylisa.org Wed Apr 16 22:22:23 2003 From: star at baylisa.org (Heather Stern) Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2003 22:22:23 -0700 (PDT) Subject: BayLISA meets tonight! (4/17) Message-ID: <200304170522.h3H5MN0N012471@www.baylisa.org> Today's the third Thursday so that means BayLISA is tonight. (or maybe you've just gotten on your late Wednesday night-shift.) If you're an interrupt driven soul like me I thought you might like the reminder :) Len Shustek is speaking about the history of computing, covering the time when these colorful workstations we have now were only a pipe dream. (You can have any color you want as long as it's phosphor green or plasma orange?) Sure to be a fine romp through the Elder Days. We start at 7:30 but it's fine to be there early. - Apple's "De Anza Building Three", Cupertino - just south of DeAnza and Mariani - easiest to enter the parking lot from Mariani (north of our entrance, go around) or from the east/antibayward side of the De Anza divider (you can make a U-turn at ... I think it's Latimer, unless you were already headed north at the time, in which case, it's your clue to pay attention.) Don't forget your wallet if you want to take us up on the membership special, join as a member without the special, or buy pint glasses and t-shirts. There will be snacks and sodas and other drinks - catered by Mrs. Hersey. I'll see you there! -* Heather Stern * Arch (secretary) BayLISA Board * http://www.baylisa.org/ *- From star at starshine.org Thu Apr 17 14:06:22 2003 From: star at starshine.org (Heather Stern) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 14:06:22 -0700 Subject: RedHat Kickstart question In-Reply-To: <20030416163453.L92807@seven.alameda.net> References: <20030416163453.L92807@seven.alameda.net> Message-ID: <20030417210622.GE16218@starshine.org> On Wed, Apr 16, 2003 at 04:34:53PM -0700, Ulf Zimmermann wrote: > Hello everyone. > > I got a question someone probably has an answer for on this list. > Working on automating system installs. Everything on these machines > is the same, with the exception of 2 things. IP address and hostname. > > Machines get static IP assigned via DHCP. Can I find out, like in the > %pre section or so, what the IP is, so that I can use it in this line: > > #Use static networking > network --bootproto static --ip 10.200.1.51 --netmask 255.255.255.0 --gatewa... > > And the other section is in %post, where based on the hostname I > would like to copy a different set of files over, simular like this: > > if [-f /mnt/tmpmnt/ssh/$HOST/ssh_host_dsa_key]; then > /bin/cp /mnt/tmpmnt/ssh/$HOST/* /etc/ssh > fi > > Any tips ? Re: IP address. Ask the proc filesystem? I think it's mounted by then. Re: %post section JimD normally had it do a retrieval from the dhcp server itself (you can use the first resolver too; either way, these are something you get handed and therefore can parse back out of the running config quickly) which allowed him to have it honor custom URLs with extra bits. The glorious thing is that it moves the sysadmin controls back to the server where it belongs instead of floating around on a scraggable floppy and falling out of date. You could also set the thing up to serve kickstart via PXE - JimD was demonstrating that at December's BayLISA. We'll be at BayLISA tonight, maybe we can chat more there. . | . Heather Stern | star at starshine.org --->*<--- Starshine Technical Services - * - consulting at starshine.org ' | ` Sysadmin Support and Training | (800) 938-4078 From ulf at Alameda.net Thu Apr 17 17:08:25 2003 From: ulf at Alameda.net (Ulf Zimmermann) Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2003 17:08:25 -0700 Subject: RedHat Kickstart question In-Reply-To: <20030417210622.GE16218@starshine.org>; from star@starshine.org on Thu, Apr 17, 2003 at 02:06:22PM -0700 References: <20030416163453.L92807@seven.alameda.net> <20030417210622.GE16218@starshine.org> Message-ID: <20030417170825.P92807@seven.alameda.net> On Thu, Apr 17, 2003 at 02:06:22PM -0700, Heather Stern wrote: > On Wed, Apr 16, 2003 at 04:34:53PM -0700, Ulf Zimmermann wrote: > > Hello everyone. > > > > I got a question someone probably has an answer for on this list. > > Working on automating system installs. Everything on these machines > > is the same, with the exception of 2 things. IP address and hostname. > > > > Machines get static IP assigned via DHCP. Can I find out, like in the > > %pre section or so, what the IP is, so that I can use it in this line: > > > > #Use static networking > > network --bootproto static --ip 10.200.1.51 --netmask 255.255.255.0 --gatewa... > > > > And the other section is in %post, where based on the hostname I > > would like to copy a different set of files over, simular like this: > > > > if [-f /mnt/tmpmnt/ssh/$HOST/ssh_host_dsa_key]; then > > /bin/cp /mnt/tmpmnt/ssh/$HOST/* /etc/ssh > > fi > > > > Any tips ? > > Re: IP address. > Ask the proc filesystem? I think it's mounted by then. > > Re: %post section > JimD normally had it do a retrieval from the dhcp server itself (you can > use the first resolver too; either way, these are something you get > handed and therefore can parse back out of the running config quickly) > which allowed him to have it honor custom URLs with extra bits. The > glorious thing is that it moves the sysadmin controls back to the server > where it belongs instead of floating around on a scraggable floppy and > falling out of date. > > You could also set the thing up to serve kickstart via PXE - JimD was > demonstrating that at December's BayLISA. I am using PXE. I ended up doing the ks.cfg to have dynamic for the network config (although the DHCP server has a fixed IP for any host). Then I got a perl script at the end of the %post section, which calls ifconfig eth0 and netstat -rn and grabs the IP, Netmask, Broadcast and GW. It then takes these and creates a new /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/ifcfg-eth0 and adds the GW to /etc/sysconfig/network. It also allows me to reverse lookup the IP (resolv.conf is configured) and uses the hostname from reverse DNS to copy fitting SSH host keys in place (which get saved if I reload a machine). Have now done 6 machines all from the same ks.cfg, only thing different is the IP and hostname via DHCP. -- Regards, Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-865-0204 You can find my resume at: http://seven.Alameda.net/~ulf/resume.html From deirdre at deirdre.net Fri Apr 18 15:34:29 2003 From: deirdre at deirdre.net (Deirdre Saoirse Moen) Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 15:34:29 -0700 Subject: Anyone have an APC Smart-UPS cable handy? Message-ID: So I have this spiffy refurb APC Smart-UPS, but one of the things I neglected to acquire was their funky proprietary serial cable. Since I'd actually like to use it as a big battery with a built-in charging system (rather than as a backup power system), this was a serious oversight. Specifically, my intended application is to power my CPAP machine on a train ride. On Wednesday. I'm not sure if there's a lead to clip for the built-in speaker, but I'd rather not go to such lengths unless I had to. I'm sure some sysadmins can answer a question not in the manual, specifically: If I set it not to beep when it's on battery power, then turn it off (but it has sufficient power to keep its memory), it's not going to re-set? If so, then I'd be appreciative if someone had such a cable, if I could arrange to use it and appropriate software (PowerChute, something else) long enough to set it to be a less obnoxious UPS. One where I (and others) could actually sleep. :) If not, well, if anyone knows of a spare cable, that'd be a start. Choice number three would be buying a cable locally -- initial searches have not shown any source for cables. -- _Deirdre http://deirdre.net "Cannot run out of time. There is infinite time. You are finite. Zathras is finite. This....is wrong tool." -- Zathras From nouveaux at lightconsulting.com Sun Apr 20 22:14:15 2003 From: nouveaux at lightconsulting.com (Dean Kao) Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2003 22:14:15 -0700 Subject: 1U Server Combo Message-ID: <20030420221415.A80515@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> Hey guys I'm looking to setup a personal 1U server and I'm not too interested/cant afford the mainstream commercial setups (Compaq, Dell). Anyone have any experience and know of any setups that works out pretty good (motherboard/chassis). I'd like dual power supply setup and a minimal requirement. No preference on Intel/AMD. All tips and suggestions welcome =). TIA Dean ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ From alvin at maggie.linux-consulting.com Mon Apr 21 02:56:03 2003 From: alvin at maggie.linux-consulting.com (Alvin Oga) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 02:56:03 -0700 (PDT) Subject: 1U Server Combo In-Reply-To: <20030420221415.A80515@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> Message-ID: hi ya dean On Sun, 20 Apr 2003, Dean Kao wrote: > Hey guys > > I'm looking to setup a personal 1U server and I'm not too > interested/cant afford the mainstream commercial setups (Compaq, > Dell). Anyone have any experience and know of any setups that > works out pretty good (motherboard/chassis). > > I'd like dual power supply setup and a minimal requirement. > No preference on Intel/AMD. dual power supply in 1U starts at say $400 and goes upwards of $800 just for the power supply ... and you might wanna close your eyes to UL issues if any ... if you want a personal 1U .... - you'd be drilling/bending your own 1U chassis ( it will be the cheapest and you'd get what you want ) - even halted ( hsc ) has those $40 1U chassis (made of plastic) if you wanna buy a real 1U chassis off the shelf ... most of the manufacturers and resellers are listed and is about $100 - $1000 for a 1U chassis .. just depends on quality and features http://www.Linux-1U.net/1U_Others - ebay is another place to find "good deals" from the .com crash the people are selling in 1-z-2-z's - if you want ul/ce/fcc certified boxes .. double those prices .. but you wont get to change the mb/cpu/mem/disks as those changes voids the fcc/ul documentation c ya alvin - going to sacramento today to design a mini-itx based 1U ... :-) From chuck+baylisa at snew.com Mon Apr 21 09:11:47 2003 From: chuck+baylisa at snew.com (Chuck Yerkes) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 12:11:47 -0400 Subject: 1U Server Combo In-Reply-To: <20030420221415.A80515@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> References: <20030420221415.A80515@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> Message-ID: <20030421161147.GA22398@snew.com> Quoting Dean Kao (nouveaux at lightconsulting.com): > I'm looking to setup a personal 1U server and I'm not too > interested/cant afford the mainstream commercial setups (Compaq, > Dell). Anyone have any experience and know of any setups that > works out pretty good (motherboard/chassis). Sure. Used/ebay. > I'd like dual power supply setup and a minimal requirement. > No preference on Intel/AMD. Dual PS. In a 1U. Good luck. 1U=1 3/4 inches. Not a lot of room. Intel boxes make heat. So you need fans and you need not candy-ass power supplies (heat and cheap power are the big PeeCee killers). You don't have room for two. They are LOUD. Friend found a 1U chassis and put a mobo in and has fought cooling from the start. Seems the SIMMS block the air flow over the CPU with front -> back cooling. He's screwing around with plastic bits to guide air and such. Spending lots of time. I picked up a VA-Linux 1U for under $600. 2CPU, its now got enough RAM. I had pretty timing. A new Netra T1 (SunFire 120 or something now) has Lights Out management (power it off and ON! via serial port). With Enough RAM, it's around $1500 (the 'starts at < $1k' is kind of a really weak machine). Runs BSD just wonderfully if you want a fast OS, or Solaris if you want robustification of features. Other options? 2U. cheaper, more room, fewer fans. From ulf at Alameda.net Mon Apr 21 09:51:59 2003 From: ulf at Alameda.net (Ulf Zimmermann) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 09:51:59 -0700 Subject: 1U Server Combo In-Reply-To: <20030420221415.A80515@shaitan.lightconsulting.com>; from nouveaux@lightconsulting.com on Sun, Apr 20, 2003 at 10:14:15PM -0700 References: <20030420221415.A80515@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> Message-ID: <20030421095159.T92807@seven.alameda.net> On Sun, Apr 20, 2003 at 10:14:15PM -0700, Dean Kao wrote: > Hey guys > > I'm looking to setup a personal 1U server and I'm not too > interested/cant afford the mainstream commercial setups (Compaq, > Dell). Anyone have any experience and know of any setups that > works out pretty good (motherboard/chassis). > > I'd like dual power supply setup and a minimal requirement. > No preference on Intel/AMD. > > All tips and suggestions welcome =). > > TIA > Dean As others already pointed out, 1U and dual PS is almost impossible. For good quality with no hassles I use SuperMicro. The last bunch I put together was about $1700 plus tax for Dual P4-2.66ghz, 1gb memory, 40gb 8mb cache disk and remote management card. These Supermicro start around $500 for case and motherboard, some include the cdrom and floppy. -- Regards, Ulf. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-865-0204 You can find my resume at: http://seven.Alameda.net/~ulf/resume.html From michael at halligan.org Mon Apr 21 10:45:51 2003 From: michael at halligan.org (Michael T. Halligan) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 10:45:51 -0700 (PDT) Subject: 1U Server Combo In-Reply-To: <20030420221415.A80515@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> Message-ID: Dean, I seem to remember either supermicro, or aberdeeninc.com had a really nice 1U/motherboard combo with 2 power supplies,2 hard disks, a cdrom, and setup in such a way that the air flowed pretty nicely.. I had bought three dozen of them for a cluster about a year and a half ago.. Just remember one thing before you order memory.. LOW-PROFILE memory! RMAing sucks, I hate paperwork. On Sun, 20 Apr 2003, Dean Kao wrote: = Hey guys = = I'm looking to setup a personal 1U server and I'm not too = interested/cant afford the mainstream commercial setups (Compaq, = Dell). Anyone have any experience and know of any setups that = works out pretty good (motherboard/chassis). = = I'd like dual power supply setup and a minimal requirement. = No preference on Intel/AMD. = = All tips and suggestions welcome =). = = TIA = Dean = = ~ = ~ = ~ = ~ = ~ = ~ = = ------------------- Michael T. Halligan Chief Geek Halligan Infrastructure Designs. 2250 Jerrold Ave #11 San Francisco, CA 94124 (415) 824.4453 - Home/Office From claw at kanga.nu Mon Apr 21 10:39:11 2003 From: claw at kanga.nu (claw at kanga.nu) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 10:39:11 -0700 Subject: No subject Message-ID: >From svlug-bounces+claw=kanga.nu at svlug.org Mon Apr 21 04: 02:52 2003 X-Envelope-From: svlug-bounces+claw=kanga.nu at svlug.org Mon Apr 21 04:02:52 2003 Return-path: Envelope-to: claw+kanganu at localhost Delivery-date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 04:02:52 -0700 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]) by dingo.home.kanga.nu with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 197Z4W-0002lX-00 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 04:02:52 -0700 Received: from kanga.nu [157.22.12.214] by localhost with IMAP (fetchmail-5.9.11) for claw+kanganu at localhost (single-drop); Mon, 21 Apr 2003 04:02:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from bush ([unix socket]) by bush (Cyrus v2.1.9-Debian-10) with LMTP; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 04:01:23 -0700 X-Sieve: CMU Sieve 2.2 Envelope-to: claw at kanga.nu Received: from svlug.svlug.org ([204.188.0.10] helo=svlug.org ident=mail) by kanga.nu with esmtp (Exim 3.36 #1 (Debian)) id 197Z34-0002qF-00 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 04:01:22 -0700 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1]:40871 helo=svlug.svlug.org) by svlug.org with esmtp (Exim 4.04 #161 (Debian)) id 197Z34-00056n-04 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 04:01:22 -0700 Received: from ocker.kanga.nu ([198.144.204.213]:42163 helo=dingo.home.kanga.nu) by svlug.org with esmtp (Cipher TLSv1:DES-CBC3-SHA:168) (Exim 4.04 #161 (Debian)) id 197Z2H-0004k6-00 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 04:00:34 -0700 Received: from localhost ([127.0.0.1] helo=kanga.nu) by dingo.home.kanga.nu with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 197Z2B-0002kD-00; Mon, 21 Apr 2003 04:00:27 -0700 To: Dean Kao In-Reply-To: Message from Dean Kao of "Sun, 20 Apr 2003 22:14:15 PDT." <20030420221415.A80515 at shaitan.lightconsulting.com> References: <20030420221415.A80515 at shaitan.lightconsulting.com> X-face: ?^_yw at fA`CEX&}--=*&XqXbF-oePvxaT4(kyt\nwM9]{]N!>b^K}-Mb9 YH%saz^>nq5usBlD"s{(.h'_w|U^3ldUq7wVZz$`u>MB(-4$f\a6Eu8.e=Pf\ X-image-url: http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/kanga.face.tiff X-url: http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 04:00:27 -0700 Message-ID: <10552.1050922827 at kanga.nu> From: J C Lawrence X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-4.4 required=7.0 tests=IN_REP_TO version=2.21 cc: svlug at lists.svlug.org Subject: [svlug] Re: 1U Server Combo X-BeenThere: svlug at lists.svlug.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.1+ Precedence: list List-Id: discussion list for the Silicon Valley Linux Users Group. List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: svlug-bounces+claw=kanga.nu at svlug.org Errors-To: svlug-bounces+claw=kanga.nu at lists.svlug.org X-Delivery: claw Resent-To: baylisa at baylisa.org Resent-Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 10:39:11 -0700 Resent-Message-ID: <16658.1050946751 at kanga.nu> Resent-From: J C Lawrence On Sun, 20 Apr 2003 22:14:15 -0700 Dean Kao wrote: > I'm looking to setup a personal 1U server and I'm not too > interested/cant afford the mainstream commercial setups (Compaq, > Dell). Anyone have any experience and know of any setups that works > out pretty good (motherboard/chassis). I've a fondness (read success) with Intel 440[blg]x motherboards, but that's mostly because I've used a lot of them and they've done well for me. Give a call to OffMyServer (408-943-4108). They've got lots of 'em. Cheap. Good people too. Ask for Ann and tell them I sent you. She'll do you right. ObNotes: I don't work there. I have no ties to them. I have and get no kickbacks from them. I merely know and like them. -- J C Lawrence ---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. claw at kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh? http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live. _______________________________________________ svlug mailing list svlug at lists.svlug.org http://lists.svlug.org/lists/listinfo/svlug From rolnif at mac.com Mon Apr 21 12:02:06 2003 From: rolnif at mac.com (John Martinez) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 12:02:06 -0700 Subject: 1U Server Combo References: <20030420221415.A80515@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20030421161147.GA22398@snew.com> Message-ID: <3EA4402E.4050000@mac.com> Chuck Yerkes wrote: ... > > I picked up a VA-Linux 1U for under $600. 2CPU, its now got enough > RAM. I had pretty timing. Bought a couple of these when VA got out of the hardware business. Nice machines. Really LOUD (as stated). You'll need low profile memory. The one thing I don't remember is whether it had two power supplies. I don't *think* they did, but it's not important to me that they have redundancy (home machines). I'm running FreeBSD 5.0 on one and Solaris 9 on the other. Great machines. The newer Sun machines (V210 and V240) look really nice, especially with their updated LOMs. -john From david at catwhisker.org Mon Apr 21 22:17:24 2003 From: david at catwhisker.org (David Wolfskill) Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2003 22:17:24 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Coping with inappropriate recursive queries to a nameserver Message-ID: <200304220517.h3M5HO7i003206@bunrab.catwhisker.org> I'll grant that my home network isn't a "large" installation, but I would expect that this issue would arise in them, and wonder what -- if anything -- can be done about it. By virtue of lucky timing, I got a static IP address when I signed up for DSL. And since I have that address, I operate various servers that are "visible" there, including the master (externally-visible) name- server for catwhisker.org. Since that ameserver needs to be able to be queried from the "outside world," I also provide slave nameservice for a handful of other zones. So far, so good. However, I have no desire to provide information about zone for which my nameserver is not authoritative (i.e., recursive queries), except for hosts on one of my internal networks. Accordingly, in the "options" stanza for named.conf, I have: allow-recursion { 127.0.0.1; 172.16.0.0/15; }; in order to enforce that. (I have the 172.16.0.0/15 space split in half, with 172.16/16 for the "trusted" network and 172.17/16 for a "guest" network. The latter is where the wireless access points go, for example.) And as a result of this, I see (during my daily review of the logs) messages such as: Apr 18 13:38:34 janus named[70668]: denied recursion for query from [65.179.65.233].32829 for mail129.mail.bellsouth.net IN Apr 18 13:38:44 janus named[70668]: denied recursion for query from [65.179.65.233].32829 for 69.58.152.205.in-addr.arpa IN Apr 18 13:39:56 janus named[70668]: denied recursion for query from [65.179.65.233].32829 for 69.58.152.205.blackholes.mail-abuse.org IN Apr 18 13:40:11 janus named[70668]: denied recursion for query from [65.179.65.233].32829 for 69.58.152.205.dialups.mail-abuse.org IN Apr 18 13:40:16 janus named[70668]: denied recursion for query from [65.179.65.233].32829 for 69.58.152.205.blackholes.mail-abuse.org IN Apr 18 13:40:24 janus named[70668]: denied recursion for query from [65.179.65.233].32829 for 69.58.152.205.relays.mail-abuse.org IN Apr 18 13:40:31 janus named[70668]: denied recursion for query from [65.179.65.233].32829 for 69.58.152.205.dialups.mail-abuse.org IN Apr 18 13:40:36 janus named[70668]: denied recursion for query from [65.179.65.233].32829 for 69.58.152.205.proxies.relays.monkeys.com IN Apr 18 13:40:43 janus named[70668]: denied recursion for query from [65.179.65.233].32829 for 69.58.152.205.relays.mail-abuse.org IN Apr 18 13:40:49 janus named[70668]: denied recursion for query from [65.179.65.233].32829 for 69.58.152.205.list.dsbl.org IN Apr 18 13:41:01 janus named[70668]: denied recursion for query from [65.179.65.233].32829 for 69.58.152.205.relays.osirusoft.com IN Apr 18 13:41:11 janus named[70668]: denied recursion for query from [65.179.65.233].32829 for 38.238.200.80.in-addr.arpa IN Apr 18 13:41:14 janus named[70668]: denied recursion for query from [65.179.65.233].32829 for jrcsdevelopment.com.dsn.rfc-ignorant.org IN Now, on the one hand, it is somewhat gratifying that the configuration is thus varified as doing what I want; on the other, the novelty has worn off quite soome time ago, and I would prefer to encourage whoever misconfigured the machine that was using the IP address 65.179.65.233 in that interval to fix things, both to quit cluttering my log and to improve any performance the machine in question might exhibit. A "whois" query against the IP address shows that it's part of the SPRINT-IPDIAL-2BLK netblock, allocated to Sprint, at 12502 Sunrise Valley Dr., Reston, VA. I tried writing to the listed contacts (ip-req at sprint.net and NOC at sprint.net), but got nothing except the auto- reply (as expected). I've considered doing something such as just black-holing the IP address(es) in question at my firewall (at least temporarily), but I'm writing in the hope that one of my colleagues will have a reasonably-effective approach that isn't quite so crude. Thoughts? I'll summarize private responses in about a week (or when I get a Truly Elegant approach, whichever comes first). Thanks, david -- David H. Wolfskill david at catwhisker.org Based on what I have seen to date, the use of Microsoft products is not consistent with reliability. I recommend FreeBSD for reliable systems. From fscked at pacbell.net Tue Apr 22 09:22:17 2003 From: fscked at pacbell.net (richard childers / kg6hac) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 09:22:17 -0700 Subject: Maybe BayLISA needs a new mailing list References: <200304131253.h3DCrMnG068730@bunrab.catwhisker.org> Message-ID: <3EA56C39.5CBEBFB1@pacbell.net> Sounds like a great idea. -- richard David Wolfskill wrote: > After the recent flurry on baylisa-jobs and seeing various folks' > reactions to same, it seems to me that something that might be > helpful is a list to allow folks to "blow off steam" from time to > time. > > I suggest a name such as baylisa-chat (or just "chat at baylisa.org"). > > Thus, the main BayLISA lists would be: > > * baylisa@ intended for BayLISA members; intended to be oriented > toward technical matters. > > * baylisa-jobs@ intended for BayLISA members and those who might be > in a position to hire folks who are likely to be > BayLISA members (whether on contract or as employees). > > * blw@ intended for BayLISA members (and certain others) who > are interested in the matters discussed by the BayLISA > Board of Directors. > > * chat@ intended for BayLISA members; a catch-all for anything > not listed above. Tangential discussions from the > other lists would be appropriate to divert to this list. > > I would, of course, prefer that if the list is created, that someone > else (other than postmaster@) would be the "list owner" (and thus > deal with attempts at spamming and the like). > > Thoughts? > > Peace, > david (postmaster at baylisa.org) > -- > David H. Wolfskill david at catwhisker.org > Based on what I have seen to date, the use of Microsoft products is not > consistent with reliability. I recommend FreeBSD for reliable systems. From windsor at warthog.com Wed Apr 23 11:06:37 2003 From: windsor at warthog.com (Rob Windsor) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 13:06:37 -0500 Subject: Coping with inappropriate recursive queries to a nameserver In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 21 Apr 2003 22:17:24 PDT." <200304220517.h3M5HO7i003206@bunrab.catwhisker.org> Message-ID: <200304231807.h3NI7IN20429@warthog.com> Blackhole the IP address. When their "bandwidth goes to crap" because of timeouts on name resolution, they'll re-evaluate their configuration. Another creative thing to do is to feed them corrupted data. One such fine example is to resolve everything to a .gov site of choice. Rob++ On Mon, 21 Apr 2003 22:17:24 PDT, verily did David Wolfskill write: > I'll grant that my home network isn't a "large" installation, but I > would expect that this issue would arise in them, and wonder what -- > if anything -- can be done about it. > > By virtue of lucky timing, I got a static IP address when I signed up > for DSL. And since I have that address, I operate various servers that > are "visible" there, including the master (externally-visible) name- > server for catwhisker.org. > > Since that ameserver needs to be able to be queried from the "outside > world," I also provide slave nameservice for a handful of other zones. > > So far, so good. > > However, I have no desire to provide information about zone for which my > nameserver is not authoritative (i.e., recursive queries), except for > hosts on one of my internal networks. > > Accordingly, in the "options" stanza for named.conf, I have: > > allow-recursion { > 127.0.0.1; > 172.16.0.0/15; > }; > > in order to enforce that. (I have the 172.16.0.0/15 space split in > half, with 172.16/16 for the "trusted" network and 172.17/16 for a > "guest" network. The latter is where the wireless access points go, for > example.) > > And as a result of this, I see (during my daily review of the logs) > messages such as: > > Apr 18 13:38:34 janus named[70668]: denied recursion for query from [65.179.6 >5.233].32829 for mail129.mail.bellsouth.net IN > Apr 18 13:38:44 janus named[70668]: denied recursion for query from [65.179.6 >5.233].32829 for 69.58.152.205.in-addr.arpa IN > Apr 18 13:39:56 janus named[70668]: denied recursion for query from [65.179.6 >5.233].32829 for 69.58.152.205.blackholes.mail-abuse.org IN > Apr 18 13:40:11 janus named[70668]: denied recursion for query from [65.179.6 >5.233].32829 for 69.58.152.205.dialups.mail-abuse.org IN > Apr 18 13:40:16 janus named[70668]: denied recursion for query from [65.179.6 >5.233].32829 for 69.58.152.205.blackholes.mail-abuse.org IN > Apr 18 13:40:24 janus named[70668]: denied recursion for query from [65.179.6 >5.233].32829 for 69.58.152.205.relays.mail-abuse.org IN > Apr 18 13:40:31 janus named[70668]: denied recursion for query from [65.179.6 >5.233].32829 for 69.58.152.205.dialups.mail-abuse.org IN > Apr 18 13:40:36 janus named[70668]: denied recursion for query from [65.179.6 >5.233].32829 for 69.58.152.205.proxies.relays.monkeys.com IN > Apr 18 13:40:43 janus named[70668]: denied recursion for query from [65.179.6 >5.233].32829 for 69.58.152.205.relays.mail-abuse.org IN > Apr 18 13:40:49 janus named[70668]: denied recursion for query from [65.179.6 >5.233].32829 for 69.58.152.205.list.dsbl.org IN > Apr 18 13:41:01 janus named[70668]: denied recursion for query from [65.179.6 >5.233].32829 for 69.58.152.205.relays.osirusoft.com IN > Apr 18 13:41:11 janus named[70668]: denied recursion for query from [65.179.6 >5.233].32829 for 38.238.200.80.in-addr.arpa IN > Apr 18 13:41:14 janus named[70668]: denied recursion for query from [65.179.6 >5.233].32829 for jrcsdevelopment.com.dsn.rfc-ignorant.org IN > > Now, on the one hand, it is somewhat gratifying that the configuration > is thus varified as doing what I want; on the other, the novelty has > worn off quite soome time ago, and I would prefer to encourage whoever > misconfigured the machine that was using the IP address 65.179.65.233 in > that interval to fix things, both to quit cluttering my log and to > improve any performance the machine in question might exhibit. > > A "whois" query against the IP address shows that it's part of the > SPRINT-IPDIAL-2BLK netblock, allocated to Sprint, at 12502 Sunrise > Valley Dr., Reston, VA. I tried writing to the listed contacts > (ip-req at sprint.net and NOC at sprint.net), but got nothing except the auto- > reply (as expected). > > I've considered doing something such as just black-holing the IP > address(es) in question at my firewall (at least temporarily), but > I'm writing in the hope that one of my colleagues will have a > reasonably-effective approach that isn't quite so crude. > > Thoughts? > > I'll summarize private responses in about a week (or when I get a Truly > Elegant approach, whichever comes first). > > Thanks, > david > -- > David H. Wolfskill david at catwhisker.org > Based on what I have seen to date, the use of Microsoft products is not > consistent with reliability. I recommend FreeBSD for reliable systems. ---------------------------------------- Internet: windsor at warthog.com __o Life: Rob at Carrollton.Texas.USA.Earth _`\<,_ (_)/ (_) The weather is here, wish you were beautiful. From rjwitte at rjwitte.com Wed Apr 23 12:35:17 2003 From: rjwitte at rjwitte.com (Russ Witte) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 15:35:17 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Coping with inappropriate recursive queries to a nameserver In-Reply-To: <200304231807.h3NI7IN20429@warthog.com> Message-ID: On Wed, 23 Apr 2003, Rob Windsor wrote: >Another creative thing to do is to feed them corrupted data. One such fine >example is to resolve everything to a .gov site of choice. > Now there's an idea ... resolve everything to a page giving them instructions to change their DNS settings ... Takes a little more bandwidth in the short term ... but might actually force them to take action. But how do you do that without breaking legitimate lookups? Russ From charlesjo at charlesjo.com Wed Apr 23 23:14:31 2003 From: charlesjo at charlesjo.com (Charles Jo) Date: Wed, 23 Apr 2003 23:14:31 -0700 Subject: Question re: EAI/Web Services In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi everyone, Do you guys think that there are EAI/Web Services/SI techies in the baylisa jobs crowd? I know that there are sys admins here. I want to post my leads but I want to avoid posting it if it's the wrong crowd. Best regards, Charles Jo Founder/Moderator, FIREBUG (First Internet Bloki User Group) 650-868-0757 (cell) | 510-487-3719 (office) hanchul2002 at msn.com | charles at kwancepts.com AIM/YIM: charlesjoco | MSN: hanchul2002 at msn.com | ICQ: 220099345 http://charlesjo.bloki.com | http://charlesjo.bloki.com/blog ___________________________________________________________________ *Free, easy to use collaborative web publishing tool and space at: http://www.bloki.com/secure/signup.jsp. *FIREBUG: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloki From star at starshine.org Tue Apr 22 15:46:28 2003 From: star at starshine.org (Heather Stern) Date: Tue, 22 Apr 2003 15:46:28 -0700 Subject: 1U Server Combo In-Reply-To: References: <20030420221415.A80515@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> Message-ID: <20030422224628.GC13868@starshine.org> > Just remember one thing before you order memory.. LOW-PROFILE memory! > RMAing sucks, I hate paperwork. Hear, hear to "RMAing sucks." In my cases it usually applies to hard drives hitting their bathtub curve. :( Folks who work with little kiosk-boxen such as ThinkNICs also need to get low profile memory, so luckily, it's not entirely rare - you just have to know what you are looking for. Looking at sticks of memory where the chips are vertical _______. . . | | ## ## ) ## ## | ## ## | ## ## """"""" . . . versus _______. . . | ## ## | ## ## ) ## ## | ## ## """"""" ...you'll see that they really barely fit along their edge. It's a little harder to tell with the horizontal chips, but you can easily compare it to a handful of standard chips and see the difference in height. I hope this keeps someone from getting gypped. Some motherboards also improve this hieght issue, at the cost of some real estate on the board, by tilting the memory chip slots downward too. I presume they intend that you can use such boards with standard size memory in a setting which would normally call for low-profile sticks. I don't know if such an arrangement causes other problems, but it seems to me that if you use such a board with low profile chips instead, you get even more room in the chassis. Beware taking your cooling for granted just because the system works with the lid open - or the heat for granted just because it runs warm that way. Only the cooling with it closed and/or sandwiched between its fellows on the rack counts. Finally, check whether the thing's vents are on the side or the back, and try not to have all the rack-beasties vent to someplace that also fails to let the heat out quickly enough. (Also known as the "does this net closet seem a little warm to you?" principle...) . | . Heather Stern | star at starshine.org --->*<--- Starshine Technical Services - * - consulting at starshine.org ' | ` Sysadmin Support and Training | (800) 938-4078 From rsr at inorganic.org Fri Apr 25 17:22:17 2003 From: rsr at inorganic.org (Roy S. Rapoport) Date: Fri, 25 Apr 2003 17:22:17 -0700 Subject: 1U Server Combo In-Reply-To: <20030422224628.GC13868@starshine.org> References: <20030420221415.A80515@shaitan.lightconsulting.com> <20030422224628.GC13868@starshine.org> Message-ID: <20030426002217.GA18202@nag.inorganic.org> On Tue, Apr 22, 2003 at 03:46:28PM -0700, Heather Stern wrote: > Beware taking your cooling for granted just because the system works > with the lid open - or the heat for granted just because it runs warm > that way. Only the cooling with it closed and/or sandwiched between > its fellows on the rack counts. Amen. I've generally found cooling works much better with the lid on, as it forces air to go along the components you're trying to cool down. -roy From alvin at maggie.linux-consulting.com Sat Apr 26 07:03:33 2003 From: alvin at maggie.linux-consulting.com (Alvin Oga) Date: Sat, 26 Apr 2003 07:03:33 -0700 (PDT) Subject: 1U Server Combo - airflow In-Reply-To: <20030426002217.GA18202@nag.inorganic.org> Message-ID: On Fri, 25 Apr 2003, Roy S. Rapoport wrote: > On Tue, Apr 22, 2003 at 03:46:28PM -0700, Heather Stern wrote: > > Beware taking your cooling for granted just because the system works > > with the lid open - or the heat for granted just because it runs warm > > that way. Only the cooling with it closed and/or sandwiched between > > its fellows on the rack counts. > > Amen. I've generally found cooling works much better with the lid on, as it > forces air to go along the components you're trying to cool down. fun stuff... :-) CPU lifespan degrades at 1/2 for every 10C increase in operating temp CPU MTBF starts at say 30,000 hrs at 25C http://www.linux-1u.net/CPU/cpu.gwif.html typical spacing above the cpu + heatsink + fan + airgap http://www.linux-1u.net/HeatSinkFans/heatsink.gwif.html ideally, i like to see 20mm high heatsinks, and use cpu cooling fans on the side of the heatsink ( side-to-side air flow ) instead of top-down cpu temp w/ and without cover depends on the fan design and the motherboard - some of the better motherboards has a temperature sensors that increases the voltage to spin the cpu fan faster ... - if the fan does NOT have air above the cpu, than the fan blades will NOT be able to spin efficiently, and you will not get the rated airflow and desired cooling of the cpu - it also makes a difference on which "fan blade" design is used on the fan that sits on top of the cpu heatsink -- so many variables - there is a big differencs between fan manufacturers and fan blades within the same models - when you go to a colo, you will see lots of dead 40mm fans ... - it died because it's cheap fans ( sleeve bearings vs hard ball bearing fans ) - the manufacturer's heatsink design and model also drastically affects your cpu temp - some are inherently worthless - some heatsinks perform better than others - to do a fair/proper cpu cooling comparason across different systems, i typically leave the cpu in "idle bios" mode and let its own hardware bios monitor tell me the cpu temp - this method is presumably a good rough operating temp ballpark across all motherboards and all cpus and all cooling fans ( with lots of statistical/technical errorneous assumptions ( when trying to compare differences of various mb, heatsinks, ( fans, etc P4-2G should be sitting at 30-35C at normal air conditioned room temp ( with or without covers ) ( better heatsink/fans will be cooler ) AMD XP2000 runs about 30-38C at normal air temp... if you did infinite kernel compiles for say an hour and than quickly view the bios temp, the cpu typically is 5-10C hotter - little or no cpu change if you have a good heatsink and very good airflow - lm_sensors is good, but sometimes it is not supported on the motherboard and/or requires additional calibration - ideally, there should be ZERO difference in cpu bios temperature with and without the cover ... - typically, cpu temp goes up 1C- 3C higher when its covered due to lack of air flow intake into the fanblades - if the cpu fans is blowing top-down onto the cpu, you're s.o.l. and your difference w/ and w/o covers can be drastically different - worst case, crashes w/ covers and stays up w/o covers - ambient operating temperature also affects cpu cooling - office environment vs computer/server rooms - airflow in the office obviously also affect airflow inside the chassis - airflow is critical inside a 1U chassis... - air must only flow in one direction and free of obstructions like power supply, pci cards, memory, capacitors, connectors, etc - air does NOT bend around (90degree) corners as easily - so you see lots of the creative ways to guide/bend the air :-) - you should have as much air intake holes as you have holes for air to flow out .. otherwise, you will be building up static air pressure and air will tend to stop flowing ( cooling the components ) as fast as it could otherwise be cooling the system - if you have the wrong size/shape holes for airflow, than you will have a noisy system ... - cpu cooling is an ideal for "smoke tests" - light a cigarette or incense and see where the smoke flows thru the chassis - if you have any turbulence, you're NOT getting the best cooling that you could otherwise get by adjusting the air flow - copper heatsinks are good "heat retainers" making it feel hotter to the touch - aluminum is NOT as good as a heat conductor, so it feels cooler to the touch - a cooling fan would be able to keep an aluminum heatsink cooler since aluminum heatsinks wont try to retain its heat - thermal conductivity vs thermal resistivity issues between copper and aluminum heatsinks and mroe fun stuff to deal with when you have a copper base plating or copper core inside of an aluminum heatsink - whomever decided to blow air down directly onto the cpu probably didnt care to get the ideal cpu cooling and just live with minimal costs and ease to install - some of the new xeon cooling is done properly where air flow is blowing side to side .... not top down onto the cpu - the air flow from the cpu cooling from top-down onto the cpu assumes that air flows sideways upon hitting the bottom in a 1U chassis ( too much turbulence does NOT cool the heatink ) - whole new ballgame with liquid cooling and peltier coolers - start all the cpu/heatsink/airflow testing all over again - somebody needs to write a finite element analysis app for running weather report ( air flow/temp ) simulations inside a 1U chassis - should be a fun project ... - raw data would come from autocad's 3D models of the components ( sw at bottom of the page ) http://www.linux-1u.net/HeatSinkFans/misc.gwif.html and yes... have fanless 1U systems ... ( well only the power supply has the fan, but no cpu fan ) c ya alvin