From alex at usenix.org  Wed Oct  9 15:18:00 2002
From: alex at usenix.org (Alex Walker)
Date: Wed, 09 Oct 2002 15:18:00 -0700
Subject: Attend LISA '02, the 16th Systems Administration Conference
Message-ID: <3DA4AB18.3060507@usenix.org>

Attend LISA '02, the 16th Systems Administration Conference in
Philadelphia, November 3-8, 2002.  http://www.usenix.org/lisa02

This year's conference is packed with:

* Training in cutting-edge technologies through 39 tutorials.

* Personal access to industry experts, including Jim Reese, chief
operations engineer, Google, Eric Allman, original author of sendmail,
Larry Wall, creator of Perl  and Paul Vixie, maintainer of the open
source version of BIND ("name service").

* Exposure to the most pressing and controversial issues including, the
constitutionality of SPAM, the debate over the necessity of journaling
and the presentation of a simple, but elegant mathematical model on the
cost of down time.

*  Issue filled technical sessions, essential networking and security
tracks, FREE vendor exhibition and provocative refereed papers.

Early registration ends October 11, 2002.
http://www.usenix.org/lisa02

-- 
Alex Walker
Production Editor
USENIX Association
2560 Ninth Street, Suite 215
Berkeley, CA 94710
510/528-8649 x33






From jxh at jxh.com  Mon Oct 14 09:40:42 2002
From: jxh at jxh.com (Jim Hickstein)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 09:40:42 -0700
Subject: BayLISA Needs YOU!
Message-ID: <4900000.1034613642@jxh.mirapoint.com>

BayLISA is run by a board of directors, elected by the membership.  Every 
year at the November meeting, either three or four of the seven seats need 
to be filled.  This year, it's four.

One of them could be you.  If you have been to a few meetings, and find any 
value in them, please consider running.  The time committment is not that 
much -- the board meets on the first Thursday of every month, and discusses 
things by email at other times.  The work is not that hard -- BayLISA's 
strong reputation makes lining up speakers (the principal task) easier than 
I imagined it would be.  Believe it or not, you just have to ask.

You will be giving something back to the community.  And you'll be getting 
something, too: professional contacts, the item on your resume (looks 
pretty good!), and of course a warm feeling.

At the October meeting (this Thursday), we reserve some time for candidates 
to make a brief statement.  Please make up your mind to run, drop us a note 
at <blw at baylisa.org> with a nomination, send a brief written statement to 
the main list <baylisa at baylisa.org>, and/or stand up on Thursday and take 
the mike.  It's a little scary, but shouldn't be: it's a group of people 
just like you.


-- Jim Hickstein, President (for one more month), BayLISA


--

You must be a member to vote in the November board election.  Membership, 
you recall, is $45/year for individuals, $500 for corporations.  Are you 
paid up?  Who knows?  (We do, but it's not something you can see 
online[1].)  Bring your checkbook this Thursday, we'll check our list, and 
you can renew before the November rush.

[1] After almost eleven years, the cobbler's children still have no shoes. 
There is an electronic database (*ahem* that took 8 years), but it's not 
yet directly available for the members themselves to review.  You can make 
this a plank in your platform. :-)


From star at starshine.org  Mon Oct 14 17:59:31 2002
From: star at starshine.org (Heather Stern)
Date: Mon, 14 Oct 2002 17:59:31 -0700
Subject: BayLISA meets Thurs, 7:30 pm
Message-ID: <20021015005931.GA2971@starshine.org>

Fellow BayLISA members, please add a note for this week in your day
planner, PDA, or whatever you use to schedule yourself.  

Our meeting is *this* Thursday.  

        Topic    - Security Basics: Apache and WU-FTPD
        Speaker  - Hal Pomeranz

BayLISA and USENIX regulars know that Hal is a very dynamic speaker, 
extremely knowledgeable, and that even experienced sorts are likely
to learn at least a little something from his talks.  

Hal will be presenting material which he is preparing for his tutorials 
at SANS 2002.  Admins of all skill levels are welcome to attend and 
comment.
	
        When     - 7:30 pm until oh, 9:30 or so... expect to get out around 10.
        Where    ...................................
		 : still the same place this month :
                 :.................................:
		   Incyte Genomics HQ
                   3160 Porter Drive
                   Palo Alto

Porter Drive is between Foothill Expressway and El Camino, along Page Mill Rd.
Travelling:
   south (From Foothill/280) -- turn right
   north (from El Camino)    -- turn left

It's the third driveway on the right: 
   1. Wall Street Journal 
   2. right next to 3 
   3. silver monolith with Lockheed Martin and Incyte Genomics logos on it 
      - shiny enough that they're both hard to see.  

Incyte is the building in the back.  We'll see you there if you can make it :)

A bunch of us like to go out afterwards for pizza, sandwiches, snacks, drinks,
and more conversation.

-* Heather Stern * Arch (secretary) BayLISA Board * http://www.baylisa.org/ *-



From extasia at mindspring.com  Wed Oct 16 10:46:13 2002
From: extasia at mindspring.com (David Alban)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:46:13 -0700
Subject: (fwd) [OldBaySAGE] A plea for cheap lodging...
Message-ID: <20021016104613.A18475@new.gerasimov.net>

Greetings!

Michael is a good guy.  I know him from my days in Baltimore.  Anyone
interested in working something out with him could maybe email him?

Thanks,
David

----- Forwarded message from "Michael G. Thompson" <mgthompson at amnet-comp.com> -----

From: "Michael G. Thompson" <mgthompson at amnet-comp.com>
To: obs <oldbaysage at lists.oldbaysage.org>, dc-sage-chat at dc-sage.org
Subject: [OldBaySAGE] A plea for cheap lodging...
Errors-To: oldbaysage-admin at lists.oldbaysage.org
X-BeenThere: oldbaysage at lists.oldbaysage.org
Reply-To: oldbaysage at lists.oldbaysage.org
Date: 16 Oct 2002 11:56:59 -0400

... in the Philadelphia are from November 3rd to November 6th.  I'll be
attending LISA on the cheap, 3 days worth of door-watching at the
tutorials nets me a tech session track on Wednesday.  I will be glad to
reimburse anyone who can sparer a few square feet of floor.  Since
there's also a medical conference in town, the rates are just friggin'
ridiculous!
--
Michael G. Thompson
AmNet Computers, LLC
http://www.amnet-comp.com
(443) 919-2000


_______________________________________________
OldBaySAGE mailing list
OldBaySAGE at lists.oldbaysage.org
http://lists.oldbaysage.org/mailman/listinfo/oldbaysage

----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.
                                 ***
Join us at sig-beer-west!  http://www.gerasimov.net/~alban/sig.beer.west.html
Unix sysadmin available:   http://www.gerasimov.net/~alban/jac/resume.html
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From extasia at mindspring.com  Wed Oct 16 10:46:13 2002
From: extasia at mindspring.com (David Alban)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 10:46:13 -0700
Subject: (fwd) [OldBaySAGE] A plea for cheap lodging...
Message-ID: <20021016104613.A18475@new.gerasimov.net>

Greetings!

Michael is a good guy.  I know him from my days in Baltimore.  Anyone
interested in working something out with him could maybe email him?

Thanks,
David

----- Forwarded message from "Michael G. Thompson" <mgthompson at amnet-comp.com> -----

From: "Michael G. Thompson" <mgthompson at amnet-comp.com>
To: obs <oldbaysage at lists.oldbaysage.org>, dc-sage-chat at dc-sage.org
Subject: [OldBaySAGE] A plea for cheap lodging...
Errors-To: oldbaysage-admin at lists.oldbaysage.org
X-BeenThere: oldbaysage at lists.oldbaysage.org
Reply-To: oldbaysage at lists.oldbaysage.org
Date: 16 Oct 2002 11:56:59 -0400

... in the Philadelphia are from November 3rd to November 6th.  I'll be
attending LISA on the cheap, 3 days worth of door-watching at the
tutorials nets me a tech session track on Wednesday.  I will be glad to
reimburse anyone who can sparer a few square feet of floor.  Since
there's also a medical conference in town, the rates are just friggin'
ridiculous!
--
Michael G. Thompson
AmNet Computers, LLC
http://www.amnet-comp.com
(443) 919-2000


_______________________________________________
OldBaySAGE mailing list
OldBaySAGE at lists.oldbaysage.org
http://lists.oldbaysage.org/mailman/listinfo/oldbaysage

----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.
                                 ***
Join us at sig-beer-west!  http://www.gerasimov.net/~alban/sig.beer.west.html
Unix sysadmin available:   http://www.gerasimov.net/~alban/jac/resume.html
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From star at starshine.org  Wed Oct 16 13:25:06 2002
From: star at starshine.org (Heather Stern)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:25:06 -0700
Subject: BayLISA tomorrow!
Message-ID: <20021016202506.GA3628@starshine.org>

If you're an interrupt-driven soul like me then you might enjoy this reminder
that BayLISA is meeting tomorrow....

...the third Thursday of the month, so if you're reading this on Thursday 
that'd be tonight :D

WHO:  	Hal Pomeranz.
		Hal has a great presentation style, he's worth seeing.

WHAT:	Security Basics. Apache and WU-FTPD.

WHERE:  
	Glad you asked.  We're still at Incyte Genomics this time.
	We will also be at Incyte in November.

	http://www.baylisa.org/locations/current.html

WHEN:	7:30 pm.

SNACKS: yes, of course.  :)

BayLISA BOARD CANDIDATES:
	If you want to be considered for Board membership, bring
	a candidate statement, or post it here so everyone can see it.

	You must be a BayLISA member to be on its board of directors.

	You do not have to be a board member to show up at Board
	meetings and help the gears keep turning.

WORTH NOTING: 
	* If your membership needs renewing, either
		- bring your checkbook
		- or use our Paypal link on the website
	  but definitely, get this settled before the rush in
	  November.
	* Students have a reduced membership fee.
	
Did I miss anything?  Oh, probably.  It's often that people will go to
an afterdinner, after the meeting - about 10 pm or whenever we can get 
our cars over there.  The site of choice lately has been Frankie,
Johnie, and Luigi's in Mountain View along El Camino.

-* Heather Stern * Arch (secretary) BayLISA Board * http://www.baylisa.org/ *-



From pdevasto at hotmail.com  Wed Oct 16 14:33:04 2002
From: pdevasto at hotmail.com (Pete De Vasto)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 14:33:04 -0700
Subject: Fw: BayLISA tomorrow!
Message-ID: <OE18uwdUTaGmvSVMum000000369@hotmail.com>

Hi, all:

Is there anyone living near Belmont going to the meeting that might be able
to give me a lift home afterwards?  Trains just don't run that often after
9:30 or 10PM.  Thanks for any help.
--
Pete De Vasto
E-mail: pdevasto at hotmail.com
Phone: (650) 592-0832
----- Original Message -----
From: "Heather Stern" <star at starshine.org>
To: <baylisa at baylisa.org>
Sent: Wednesday, October 16, 2002 1:25 PM
Subject: BayLISA tomorrow!


> If you're an interrupt-driven soul like me then you might enjoy this
reminder
> that BayLISA is meeting tomorrow....
>
> ...the third Thursday of the month, so if you're reading this on Thursday
> that'd be tonight :D
>
> WHO:  Hal Pomeranz.
> Hal has a great presentation style, he's worth seeing.
>
> WHAT: Security Basics. Apache and WU-FTPD.
>
> WHERE:
> Glad you asked.  We're still at Incyte Genomics this time.
> We will also be at Incyte in November.
>
> http://www.baylisa.org/locations/current.html
>
> WHEN: 7:30 pm.
>
> SNACKS: yes, of course.  :)
>
> BayLISA BOARD CANDIDATES:
> If you want to be considered for Board membership, bring
> a candidate statement, or post it here so everyone can see it.
>
> You must be a BayLISA member to be on its board of directors.
>
> You do not have to be a board member to show up at Board
> meetings and help the gears keep turning.
>
> WORTH NOTING:
> * If your membership needs renewing, either
> - bring your checkbook
> - or use our Paypal link on the website
>   but definitely, get this settled before the rush in
>   November.
> * Students have a reduced membership fee.
>
> Did I miss anything?  Oh, probably.  It's often that people will go to
> an afterdinner, after the meeting - about 10 pm or whenever we can get
> our cars over there.  The site of choice lately has been Frankie,
> Johnie, and Luigi's in Mountain View along El Camino.
>
> -* Heather Stern * Arch (secretary) BayLISA Board *
http://www.baylisa.org/ *-
>


From extasia at mindspring.com  Wed Oct 16 23:13:52 2002
From: extasia at mindspring.com (David Alban)
Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 23:13:52 -0700
Subject: [baylisa] SIG-BEER-WEST this Saturday 10/19/2002 in San Francisco
Message-ID: <20021016231352.B25421@new.gerasimov.net>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Greetings!

Third Saturday is once more almost upon us.  This calls for beer.  Find
some, along with good company, at:



SIG-beer-west
Saturday, October 19, 2002 at 6:00pm
San Francisco, CA

Beer.   Mental stimulation.

This event:

   * Saturday, 10/19/2002, 6:00pm, at the Toronado, San Francisco

Coming events (third Saturdays):

   * Saturday, 11/16/2002, 6:00pm
   * Saturday, 12/21/2002, 6:00pm
   * Saturday, 01/18/2003, 6:00pm

San Francisco's next social event for computer sysadmins and their
friends, sig-beer-west, will take place on Saturday, October 19, 2002
at the Toronado <http://www.toronado.com> in San Francisco, CA. The
Toronado has an impressive selection of draught
<http://www.toronado.com/draft.htm> and bottled beer
<http://www.toronado.com/bottles.htm>. Festivities will start at
6:00pm and continue until we've all left. The Toronado has an
excellent selection of beer, but no food. It is perfectly okay to
score food from neighboring establishments and bring it back to the
Toronado to eat. Also, after we are all full with beer we may roam
off to a nearby restaurant.  

Everyone is welcome at this event. We mean it! Please feel free to
forward this link and to invite friends, co-workers, and others who
might enjoy lifting a glass with interesting folks from all over the
place. (Well, O.K., you do have to be of legal drinking age to attend.)

For directions to the Toronado, please use the excellent directions
at their website <http://www.toronado.com/map.htm>. When you show up
at the Toronado, you should look for some kind of botched
sig-beer-west sign. We will try to make it obvious who we are. :-) 

Note: Check the tables in the back room for us if you don't see us at
the tables by the bar.  The back room is back and to the left.

Any Comments, Questions, or Suggestions of Things to Do Later on That
Evening ... email Fiid <fiid AT fiid DOT net> or David <extasia AT
mindspring DOT com>.

sig-beer-west FAQ

  1. Q: Your announcement says "computer sysadmins and their friends". How
     do I know if I'm a friend of a computer sysadmin? I don't even know
     what one is!

     A: You're a friend of a computer sysadmin if you can find the
     sig-beer-west sign at this month's sig-beer-west. :-)

  ------------------------------------------------------------------------

sig-beer-west was started when a couple Washington, D.C. based
systems administrators who moved to the San Francisco Bay area wanted
to continue a dc-sage <http://www.dc-sage.org/> tradition, sig-beer,
which is described in dc-sage web space as:

  SIG-beer, as in "Special Interest Group - Beer" ala ACM, or as in
  "send the BEER signal to that process".

  The original SIG-beer gathering takes place in Washington DC,
  usually on the first Saturday night of the month.

  ------------------------------------------------------------------------

Last modified:  $Date: 2002/10/17 01:30:18 $

- -- 
Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.
                                 ***
Join us at sig-beer-west!  http://www.gerasimov.net/~alban/sig.beer.west.html
Unix sysadmin available:   http://www.gerasimov.net/~alban/jac/resume.html


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From star at starshine.org  Thu Oct 17 18:47:28 2002
From: star at starshine.org (Heather Stern)
Date: Thu, 17 Oct 2002 18:47:28 -0700
Subject: Here is candidate statement
In-Reply-To: <3DAF17B2.8080508@wwc.com>
References: <3DAF17B2.8080508@wwc.com>
Message-ID: <20021018014728.GC5318@starshine.org>

Alan sent his candidate statement to me as secretary, to take a look at.
He looks like a suitable candidate to me... per his permission, I'm
forwarding it to the membership at large.

-* Heather Stern * Arch (secretary) BayLISA Board * http://www.baylisa.org/ *-

- -- -- -- -- -- attahed.

                          Candidate's Statement
                                   for
                         Board Member of BAYLISA
 
 
 Candidate's Name:    Alan G. Stewart
 
 Candidate's History:
 
    I am currently the NT/Unix System Administrator for West Valley - 
 Misssion Community College District.  I  have been with the district 
 going on 3 years this december.  I have been a Sun administrator for 10 
 years, a HPUX administrator for 6 years, a AIX administrator for 2 
 years, a Linux (SUSE & Redhat) administrator for 4 years and a NT 
 administrator for 3 years.
 
    Also, I have been a part-time college instructor at Mission College, 
 DeAnza College, Foothill College, and Ohlone College.  I have taught 
 courses in UNIX from introductory to System Admin levels, including
 shell programming.
 
 BayLISA Activitites:
 
    I have been involved with BayLISA for 4 years and Usenix for 6 
 years.   I have been attending the BayLISA board meetings for about 
 the last 9 months to get familiar with the responsibilities of a 
 board member.  I am helping out the board by doing script programming 
 improvements to the BayLISA web server.
 
 BayLISA Board Goals/Objectives if I become a Board Memeber:
 
    I would like to see the following:
        1.    Increased attendance at monthly meetings
        2.    Help get college students and junior system administrators 
	      to attend meeting/become members.
        3.    Increase membership.
 
 
 Alan Stewart
 


From strata at virtual.net  Fri Oct 18 14:50:32 2002
From: strata at virtual.net (Strata Rose Chalup)
Date: Fri, 18 Oct 2002 17:50:32 -0400
Subject: Candidate Statement: Strata R Chalup
Message-ID: <3DB08228.6CB25F45@virtual.net>


Background:

Strata Rose Chalup is an incumbent Board member, and has been 
wandering the country in a motorhome, missing meetings and 
only loosely keeping up with BayLISA administration.  Despite
these well-honed character flaws, she always pops up out of the
woodwork with historical perspective, the contact info for
making reservations for the annual picnic, speaker suggestions,
and the like.  Still involved with Usenix and LISA, and likes
to see mutual benefit there without actually worrying about the
"SAGE Local Group" vs "SAGE Affiliated Group" boffinry.  Currently 
in Philly, reappearing back in Silly Valley in December/January 
timeframe.  Have modem, will travel.

Current priority:

I think we could be doing more to help and mobilize some of the
folks who are currently not working.  The baylisa-jobs list is
more active than ever, and has spawned one or two discussion lists.
Let's try to use some of the BayLISA infrastructure to help people
find constructive things to do to keep their skills sharp while
looking for work.  We've got some projects that have been languishing
for quite a while, since none of us has had time to really spec out
what needs doing and point people at it.  "Sancho, my horse!"

Disclaimer:

Almost certain to stay involved even if unelected.  Irritating vocal
minority.  Still runs well with scissors-- ventilation from a few
stumbles can double as turbo intake.  

cheers,
Strata

-- 
========================================================================
Strata Rose Chalup [KF6NBZ]                      strata "@" virtual.net
VirtualNet Consulting                            http://www.virtual.net/
 ** Project Management & Architecture for ISP/ASP Systems Integration **
=========================================================================



From ferret at telocity.com  Mon Oct 28 08:33:45 2002
From: ferret at telocity.com (Michael G. Thompson)
Date: 28 Oct 2002 11:33:45 -0500
Subject: a plea for cheap housing...
Message-ID: <1035822826.1152.18.camel@unk.aclinux.net>

My thanks to all who responded in such a generous manner.  I've got a
place to squat.





From extasia at mindspring.com  Mon Oct 28 15:55:42 2002
From: extasia at mindspring.com (David Alban)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:55:42 -0800
Subject: Disk recovery?
In-Reply-To: <20021028183853.GD1381@fetter.org>; from david@fetter.org on Mon, Oct 28, 2002 at 10:38:54AM -0800
References: <20021028183853.GD1381@fetter.org>
Message-ID: <20021028155542.A27730@new.gerasimov.net>

Greetings!

A non-baylisa Bay area person on another list wrote:

    Kind people,
    
    I suspect I've had a drive engine burn out, but possibly not a head
    crash.  The head crash is probably on the mirror disk :P
    
    Does anybody here know a decent drive recovery place where they can do
    a little discovery (first) and some recovery (possibly later) on
    either or both of these drives?
    
    Big TIA for any personal experiences :)
    
    Cheers,
    D

I offered to pose the question on the baylisa list.  Can you help
him?  Please cc:

  David Fetter <david at fetter.org>

with your responses or reply directly to him.

Thanks!
David
-- 
Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.
                                 ***
Join us at sig-beer-west!  http://www.gerasimov.net/~alban/sig.beer.west.html
Unix sysadmin available:   http://www.gerasimov.net/~alban/jac/resume.html
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From jhoney at flash.net  Mon Oct 28 19:54:14 2002
From: jhoney at flash.net (jhoney at flash.net)
Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 21:54:14 -0600
Subject: Disk recovery?
References: <20021028183853.GD1381@fetter.org> <20021028155542.A27730@new.gerasimov.net>
Message-ID: <3DBE0666.8000507@flash.net>

David Alban wrote:

>
>    Does anybody here know a decent drive recovery place where they can do
>    a little discovery (first) and some recovery (possibly later) on
>    either or both of these drives?
>    
>    Big TIA for any personal experiences :)
>    
>
Fortunately I haven't had any experience with them but a few weeks ago I 
sent a Seagate and a Western Digital drive back for warranty exchange. 
 One of the sites (I'm thinking Seagate) has a list of recommended 
recovery services.  Drill into the path you'd take to return a drive or 
RMA status.

Good luck.




From star at starshine.org  Tue Oct 29 00:24:55 2002
From: star at starshine.org (Heather Stern)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 00:24:55 -0800
Subject: Disk recovery?
In-Reply-To: <3DBE0666.8000507@flash.net>
References: <20021028183853.GD1381@fetter.org> <20021028155542.A27730@new.gerasimov.net> <3DBE0666.8000507@flash.net>
Message-ID: <20021029082455.GA4566@starshine.org>

On Mon, Oct 28, 2002 at 09:54:14PM -0600, jhoney at flash.net wrote:
> David Alban wrote:
> 
> >
> >   Does anybody here know a decent drive recovery place where they can do
> >   a little discovery (first) and some recovery (possibly later) on
> >   either or both of these drives?
> >   
> >   Big TIA for any personal experiences :)

> Fortunately I haven't had any experience with them but a few weeks ago I 
> sent a Seagate and a Western Digital drive back for warranty exchange. 
> One of the sites (I'm thinking Seagate) has a list of recommended 
> recovery services.  Drill into the path you'd take to return a drive or 
> RMA status.
> 
> Good luck.
 
 My experience with Maxtor drives is that I *really* like their warranty
 policy.

 If the drive is still in manufacturer they will replace, no questions
 asked.  The only caveat is that you have to request an RMA code (duh)
 and you *must* pack it to them the way they say.  no bubble wrap, no
 staticky peanuts.

 If t's no longer in manufacture, but you can prove you bought it within 
 the last 90 days... well, that'd be when you need the receipt, but
 other than that things are just the same.

 And the make it quite easy to look up if your drive model qualifies.

 . . .

 Ahh, but they were wondering about data recovery, itself.  I have no
 direct experience of dealing directly with cleanroom recovery shops.

 Indirect experience offers that both Symantec and McAfee offered up
 Ontrack Data Recovery as a recommendation if someone's drive was that
 far gone.  And nobody ever claimed it was cheap. 

 Direct experience, then...
 
 There is a known form of dd that will brutally make a few seek tricks to 
 try and beat its way past crudded out disk drive portions.  Look for it 
 on some of the "security and forensics" type linux mini-distros.

 If a drive won't talk at all sometimes it's merely that the partition
 table is screwed up that bad;  the data *may* be okay.  If track 0 
 isn't headcrashed, you can narrow down the correct sizes, one partition
 at a time.  Slow, but rewarding, if hardware itself isn't what did you
 in.

 Once upon forever ago (about 93, 94) Jim and I both have done data
 recovery ourselves;  trained by the best at Norton.  But that was 
 all software-style, no cleanroom excitement.  And neither of us have
 rushed to learn about the gore under the hood of modern operating 
 systems.  Although, of course, it's pretty easy to have a well 
 behaved system at hand for comparison.   Still, verry ugggggly...

 I'd saying if you can find the beginnings of things, you pretty much 
 win;  lost+found items, or CHKDSK.00N fragments, can be identified 
 using 'file' from a well-equipped rescue disk. 

Good luck.

  . | .   Heather Stern                  |         star at starshine.org
--->*<--- Starshine Technical Services - * - consulting at starshine.org
  ' | `   Sysadmin Support and Training  |        (800) 938-4078
 


From ghstridr at caressofsteel.net  Tue Oct 29 01:00:00 2002
From: ghstridr at caressofsteel.net (Ghost Rider)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 01:00:00 -0800
Subject: Disk recovery?
In-Reply-To: <20021029082455.GA4566@starshine.org>
Message-ID: <000401c27f29$93b0f630$960a120a@thor>

I almost forgot about these guys and they are right in the bay area:
http://www.drivesavers.com/
I've worked a few places where we have used them.  They have retrieved
the data every time.  Their prices are steep, but you need to ask, how
valuable is the data?  They are as good as their word.  Take the time to
browser their museum of Disk-asters (their phrase, not mine):
http://www.drivesavers.com/museum/museuma.html
All of these are machines/drives where they have recovered data from it.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-baylisa at baylisa.org [mailto:owner-baylisa at baylisa.org] On
Behalf Of Heather Stern
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 12:25 AM
To: jhoney at flash.net
Cc: David Alban; baylisa at baylisa.org; David Fetter
Subject: Re: Disk recovery?


On Mon, Oct 28, 2002 at 09:54:14PM -0600, jhoney at flash.net wrote:
> David Alban wrote:
> 
> >
> >   Does anybody here know a decent drive recovery place where they
can do
> >   a little discovery (first) and some recovery (possibly later) on
> >   either or both of these drives?
> >   
> >   Big TIA for any personal experiences :)

> Fortunately I haven't had any experience with them but a few weeks ago
I 
> sent a Seagate and a Western Digital drive back for warranty exchange.

> One of the sites (I'm thinking Seagate) has a list of recommended 
> recovery services.  Drill into the path you'd take to return a drive
or 
> RMA status.
> 
> Good luck.
 
 My experience with Maxtor drives is that I *really* like their warranty
 policy.

 If the drive is still in manufacturer they will replace, no questions
 asked.  The only caveat is that you have to request an RMA code (duh)
 and you *must* pack it to them the way they say.  no bubble wrap, no
 staticky peanuts.

 If t's no longer in manufacture, but you can prove you bought it within

 the last 90 days... well, that'd be when you need the receipt, but
 other than that things are just the same.

 And the make it quite easy to look up if your drive model qualifies.

 . . .

 Ahh, but they were wondering about data recovery, itself.  I have no
 direct experience of dealing directly with cleanroom recovery shops.

 Indirect experience offers that both Symantec and McAfee offered up
 Ontrack Data Recovery as a recommendation if someone's drive was that
 far gone.  And nobody ever claimed it was cheap. 

 Direct experience, then...
 
 There is a known form of dd that will brutally make a few seek tricks
to 
 try and beat its way past crudded out disk drive portions.  Look for it

 on some of the "security and forensics" type linux mini-distros.

 If a drive won't talk at all sometimes it's merely that the partition
 table is screwed up that bad;  the data *may* be okay.  If track 0 
 isn't headcrashed, you can narrow down the correct sizes, one partition
 at a time.  Slow, but rewarding, if hardware itself isn't what did you
 in.

 Once upon forever ago (about 93, 94) Jim and I both have done data
 recovery ourselves;  trained by the best at Norton.  But that was 
 all software-style, no cleanroom excitement.  And neither of us have
 rushed to learn about the gore under the hood of modern operating 
 systems.  Although, of course, it's pretty easy to have a well 
 behaved system at hand for comparison.   Still, verry ugggggly...

 I'd saying if you can find the beginnings of things, you pretty much 
 win;  lost+found items, or CHKDSK.00N fragments, can be identified 
 using 'file' from a well-equipped rescue disk. 

Good luck.

  . | .   Heather Stern                  |         star at starshine.org
--->*<--- Starshine Technical Services - * - consulting at starshine.org
  ' | `   Sysadmin Support and Training  |        (800) 938-4078
 




From lanning at monsoonwind.com  Tue Oct 29 07:44:27 2002
From: lanning at monsoonwind.com (Robert Hajime Lanning)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 07:44:27 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Disk recovery?
In-Reply-To: <20021029082455.GA4566@starshine.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.44.0210290737440.7631-100000@hamner.monsoonwind.com>

On Tue, 29 Oct 2002, Heather Stern wrote:
> On Mon, Oct 28, 2002 at 09:54:14PM -0600, jhoney at flash.net wrote:
> > David Alban wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >   Does anybody here know a decent drive recovery place where they can do
> > >   a little discovery (first) and some recovery (possibly later) on
> > >   either or both of these drives?
> > >
> > >   Big TIA for any personal experiences :)
>
> > Fortunately I haven't had any experience with them but a few weeks ago I
> > sent a Seagate and a Western Digital drive back for warranty exchange.
> > One of the sites (I'm thinking Seagate) has a list of recommended
> > recovery services.  Drill into the path you'd take to return a drive or
> > RMA status.
> >
> > Good luck.
>
[snip]
>  Direct experience, then...
>
>  There is a known form of dd that will brutally make a few seek tricks to
>  try and beat its way past crudded out disk drive portions.  Look for it
>  on some of the "security and forensics" type linux mini-distros.
>
>  If a drive won't talk at all sometimes it's merely that the partition
>  table is screwed up that bad;  the data *may* be okay.  If track 0
>  isn't headcrashed, you can narrow down the correct sizes, one partition
>  at a time.  Slow, but rewarding, if hardware itself isn't what did you
>  in.
>
>  Once upon forever ago (about 93, 94) Jim and I both have done data
>  recovery ourselves;  trained by the best at Norton.  But that was
>  all software-style, no cleanroom excitement.  And neither of us have
>  rushed to learn about the gore under the hood of modern operating
>  systems.  Although, of course, it's pretty easy to have a well
>  behaved system at hand for comparison.   Still, verry ugggggly...
>
>  I'd saying if you can find the beginnings of things, you pretty much
>  win;  lost+found items, or CHKDSK.00N fragments, can be identified
>  using 'file' from a well-equipped rescue disk.
>
> Good luck.

Have you tried swapping the controler on the bottom of the drive with one
from a working drive of the same model?

Alot of times the controler is what goes bad.  If you don't care about the
warrenty (like it is already out of warrenty), then try popping the controler
board off and replacing it.  I have done this successfully on SCSI Seagate
drives.  (Usualy these are disks that don't show up in a SCSI bus scan or
stop responding after large reads.)

-- 
END OF LINE




From chdowning at earthlink.com  Tue Oct 29 12:50:47 2002
From: chdowning at earthlink.com (Cheryl Downing)
Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 12:50:47 -0800
Subject: Disk recovery?
Message-ID: <005101c27f8c$dcf9c2a0$fa23fa81@cdowning.vip.best.com>

Hi David,

Other suggestions might be

- DriveSavers Data Recovery in Novato
  http://www.drivesavers.com/contact.html
  As I understand it, their focus is data recovery. They might be able to
recommend someone for drive recovery.

- CJS Systems (for Macs only?), 2750 Adeline St., Berkeley 94703,
510-849-3730

While I have not used these locations myself, I put these company names in
my database back in 1999 after they were recommended by someone on the S.F.
Women on the Web (http://www.sfwow.org) mailing list. The companies were
evidently originally recommended on the Berkeley Mac Users Grp. (BMUG)
mailing list.

Best of luck!

Cheryl Downing
Downing & Associates
408-257-1049
chdowning at earthlink.com
** Fast-Track PR for Creative New Economy Entrepreneurs **

-----Original Message-----
From: Heather Stern <star at starshine.org>
To: jhoney at flash.net <jhoney at flash.net>
Cc: David Alban <extasia at mindspring.com>; baylisa at baylisa.org
<baylisa at baylisa.org>; David Fetter <david at fetter.org>
Date: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 12:25 AM
Subject: Re: Disk recovery?

>On Mon, Oct 28, 2002 at 09:54:14PM -0600, jhoney at flash.net wrote:
>> David Alban wrote:
>>
>> >   Does anybody here know a decent drive recovery place where they can
do
>> >   a little discovery (first) and some recovery (possibly later) on
>> >   either or both of these drives?
>> >
>> >   Big TIA for any personal experiences :)
>
>> Fortunately I haven't had any experience with them but a few weeks ago I
>> sent a Seagate and a Western Digital drive back for warranty exchange.
>> One of the sites (I'm thinking Seagate) has a list of recommended
>> recovery services.  Drill into the path you'd take to return a drive or
>> RMA status.
>>
>> Good luck.
>
> My experience with Maxtor drives is that I *really* like their warranty
> policy.
>
> If the drive is still in manufacturer they will replace, no questions
> asked.  The only caveat is that you have to request an RMA code (duh)
> and you *must* pack it to them the way they say.  no bubble wrap, no
> staticky peanuts.
>
> If t's no longer in manufacture, but you can prove you bought it within
> the last 90 days... well, that'd be when you need the receipt, but
> other than that things are just the same.
>
> And the make it quite easy to look up if your drive model qualifies.
>
> . . .
>
> Ahh, but they were wondering about data recovery, itself.  I have no
> direct experience of dealing directly with cleanroom recovery shops.
>
> Indirect experience offers that both Symantec and McAfee offered up
> Ontrack Data Recovery as a recommendation if someone's drive was that
> far gone.  And nobody ever claimed it was cheap.
>
> Direct experience, then...
>
> There is a known form of dd that will brutally make a few seek tricks to
> try and beat its way past crudded out disk drive portions.  Look for it
> on some of the "security and forensics" type linux mini-distros.
>
> If a drive won't talk at all sometimes it's merely that the partition
> table is screwed up that bad;  the data *may* be okay.  If track 0
> isn't headcrashed, you can narrow down the correct sizes, one partition
> at a time.  Slow, but rewarding, if hardware itself isn't what did you
> in.
>
> Once upon forever ago (about 93, 94) Jim and I both have done data
> recovery ourselves;  trained by the best at Norton.  But that was
> all software-style, no cleanroom excitement.  And neither of us have
> rushed to learn about the gore under the hood of modern operating
> systems.  Although, of course, it's pretty easy to have a well
> behaved system at hand for comparison.   Still, verry ugggggly...
>
> I'd saying if you can find the beginnings of things, you pretty much
> win;  lost+found items, or CHKDSK.00N fragments, can be identified
> using 'file' from a well-equipped rescue disk.
>
>Good luck.
>
>  . | .   Heather Stern                  |         star at starshine.org
>--->*<--- Starshine Technical Services - * - consulting at starshine.org
>  ' | `   Sysadmin Support and Training  |        (800) 938-4078
>




From extasia at mindspring.com  Thu Oct 31 13:14:31 2002
From: extasia at mindspring.com (David Alban)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 13:14:31 -0800
Subject: [baylisa] Perverting web bugs
Message-ID: <20021031131431.A15224@new.gerasimov.net>

Greetings!

I expect occasionally to get spam with web bugs.  spamassassing is
nice enough to identify the messages containint them.  My question:
can I sick 'em on somebody else?  I recently put my resume on dice,
and so now I get job related spam.  Fair enough, I knew when I put my
resume on dice that I'd get stuff like that.  No biggie.

However, it did occur to me that I might use my browser to "visit"
the web bug URL, but substituting any given "return" address, or any
other spammer's email address for my address.

Sure, the spammer email addresses may be bogus, but if I get job
related spam messages where they actually want you to reply via
email, then I'm assuming the email address is valid enough that it is
capable of receiving email.  If not, nothing is lost.  Or maybe, even
better, it will increase a spammer's bounced messages.

It would require very little effort to generate a file of links using
web bugs and candidate spammer email addresses and then bring up the
file in $BROWSER and visit each link.

If there's a chance that I can get one spammer on another's list,
I'll do it, because, as I said, it's very cheap to do.  Do you think
there's a chance?  

Thanks,
David
-- 
Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.
                                 ***
Join us at sig-beer-west!  http://www.gerasimov.net/~alban/sig.beer.west.html
Unix sysadmin available:   http://www.gerasimov.net/~alban/jac/resume.html
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From rick at linuxmafia.com  Thu Oct 31 15:50:08 2002
From: rick at linuxmafia.com (Rick Moen)
Date: Thu, 31 Oct 2002 15:50:08 -0800
Subject: [baylisa] Perverting web bugs
In-Reply-To: <20021031131431.A15224@new.gerasimov.net>
References: <20021031131431.A15224@new.gerasimov.net>
Message-ID: <20021031235008.GS23673@linuxmafia.com>

Quoting David Alban (extasia at mindspring.com):

> If there's a chance that I can get one spammer on another's list,
> I'll do it, because, as I said, it's very cheap to do.  Do you think
> there's a chance?  

It's a lovely thought, but spammers tend to live in a world of throwaway
webmail accounts and misdirection towards innocent parties.  If you can
nail down the spammer's physical location, some effective
countermeasures are possible, but that is increasingly difficult, too:
The days when you could cost Canter & Siegel reams of fax paper every
day and tie up their office employees' time are sadly only a memory.

-- 
Cheers,            There are only 10 types of people in this world -- 
Rick Moen          those who understand binary arithmetic and those who don't.
rick at linuxmafia.com