From rqa at ix.netcom.com  Fri Mar  1 06:10:02 2002
From: rqa at ix.netcom.com (RQA General)
Date: Fri, 01 Mar 2002 06:10:02 -0800
Subject: Save our jobs.
References: <731E36372B5FD248AF790189519A32C1118F75@mailhub.cgtime.com>
Message-ID: <002d01c1c12a$c7abd940$0b00a8c0@ADMINASST>

Daniel;

 I have been a high tech recruiter in the Bay Area since 1978. I recommend
that all candidates who work with me read the book Knock em Dead. Those who
do get more offers and better packages.

 We are currently looking for a Unix Sys Admin with TRU 64 experience.
Please spread the word and good luck with the search.

 Leave no stone unturned, it is very competitive out there for prospective
employees.


----- Original Message -----
From: "Daniel Curry" <dcurry at cariocas.com>
To: "Ray Wong" <netcommail at rayw.com>; <baylisa at baylisa.org>
Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2002 12:49 PM
Subject: RE: Save our jobs.


> <Applauds>
> This list needs to focus on what we, within this list,
> can do.  Either on our own, or within the scope of a baylisa gathering.
> Stop worrying about what's wrong with the world and just look for work.
> Anything else you should get some cheese to go with that whine. :)
> </Applauds>
>
> Now, do any of those who HAVE found work care to share any tips for
> what's
> worked?  I think those out of work already know what hasn't. :rolleyes:
>
> I'm sorry to say I was fortunate with the latest job change.  I was
> working for a company (closing it down)  had about 30 days before the
> doors were locked, and I was 'found' by my current employer.  This was
> last April.  I missed the worst part of the lay-offs.
>
> Over the last 10 months, I have been helping two very good and close
> friends look for jobs, stretching those networks, actually begging a
> previous supervisor to at least consider an associate of mine for a
> position he had open.  Two years ago when I moved out here it was an
> 'employee' market.  If you had the skills, and could sell your self, you
> could almost write your own ticket.  Now it is just the opposite.  I was
> called last week as a personal reference for a guy I know.  He was
> applying for a net admin job in a mixed Unix/Linux/Win? Environment.
> The position is full time for another struggling startup, but is only
> $44K with no health, parking, or other benefits.  Unemployment ran out a
> long time ago, and he is hungry, not just for work.  Flipping burgers at
> a local burger joint will not help much.
>
> There are some jobs out there, not many, but a few.
>
> As I asked homeless bum the other day that was harassing people at a bus
> stop: 'How hungry are you?  Are you willing to work for the handout you
> are asking for?'  he walked away grumbling about finding good
> Christians.
>
> I know there is a big difference between the members of this list and
> the homeless.  At least there was 18 months ago.  But with the economy
> doing its thing, many people need to look at this as an opportunity to
> sharpen skills, build a backup skill set, etc.  I am.  I am picking up
> some fresh programming skills, and taking MBA classes. There are a lot
> of new scholarships available for those people wanting to shift careers
> or update skills.
>
> My wife, God bless her sweet and patient heart, is a school teacher and
> has been very scared, but very understanding.  Don't forget to think of,
> and thank those that are supporting you during this time of trouble.
>
> This is just my opinion and point of view.  You are welcome to share it
> or disagree with it.  Such is your right for having the responsibility
> of intelligent thought.
>
> Daniel Curry
> IT Manager
> Cariocas
> 625 Second Street
> Suite 201
> San Francisco, CA 94107
> ph: 415-348-6516
> fx: 415-348-6505
> cell: 510-579-6680
>
>



From holland at guidancetech.com  Fri Mar  1 11:54:28 2002
From: holland at guidancetech.com (Rich Holland)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 13:54:28 -0600
Subject: Save our jobs.
In-Reply-To: <002d01c1c12a$c7abd940$0b00a8c0@ADMINASST>
Message-ID: <000201c1c15a$e834b3f0$647ba8c0@hackintosh>

I can second this opinion.  Martin Yates books are very well written,
and I've always made it a point to re-read Knock 'Em Dead before every
job interview.  It truly does help.

Rich

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-baylisa at baylisa.org [mailto:owner-baylisa at baylisa.org] On
> Behalf Of RQA General
> Sent: Friday, March 01, 2002 8:10 AM
> To: Daniel Curry; Ray Wong; baylisa at baylisa.org
> Subject: Re: Save our jobs.
> 
> Daniel;
> 
>  I have been a high tech recruiter in the Bay Area since 1978. I
recommend
> that all candidates who work with me read the book Knock em Dead.
Those
> who
> do get more offers and better packages.





From dcurry at cariocas.com  Fri Mar  1 12:05:06 2002
From: dcurry at cariocas.com (Daniel Curry)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 12:05:06 -0800
Subject: Mixed Network - single authentication (revisited)
Message-ID: <731E36372B5FD248AF790189519A32C180DE2F@mailhub.cgtime.com>

I have a mixed network of win-whatever systems and linux/unix
development systems and servers.  I currently have an ADC and a Linux
OpenLDAP server cross authenticating via Kerberos.  The windows systems
authenticate against the ADC, as do the Linux/Unix systems, via the
OpenLDAP server.  At least all this is working in my 'lab' of 5
machines.  Here is the question I have no idea how to answer, yet.   I
want to drop the Kerberos link, and have all systems authenticate
against the LDAP server.  Does anyone have any suggestions on how to do
this?  Will Exchange run its mailbox authentication requests against the
LDAP server?  Or just against the ADC?

Thanks for any advise or suggestions.

Daniel Curry
IT Manager
Cariocas
625 Second Street 
Suite 201
San Francisco, CA 94107 
ph: 415-348-6516
fx: 415-348-6505 
cell: 510-579-6680



From dannyman at toldme.com  Fri Mar  1 23:42:43 2002
From: dannyman at toldme.com (Danny Howard)
Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2002 23:42:43 -0800
Subject: Mixed Network - single authentication (revisited)
In-Reply-To: <731E36372B5FD248AF790189519A32C180DE2F@mailhub.cgtime.com>; from dcurry@cariocas.com on Fri, Mar 01, 2002 at 12:05:06PM -0800
References: <731E36372B5FD248AF790189519A32C180DE2F@mailhub.cgtime.com>
Message-ID: <20020301234243.W3896@pianosa.catch22.org>

On Fri, Mar 01, 2002 at 12:05:06PM -0800, Daniel Curry wrote:
> I have a mixed network of win-whatever systems and linux/unix
> development systems and servers.  I currently have an ADC and a Linux
> OpenLDAP server cross authenticating via Kerberos.  The windows
> systems authenticate against the ADC, as do the Linux/Unix systems,
> via the OpenLDAP server.  At least all this is working in my 'lab' of
> 5 machines.  Here is the question I have no idea how to answer, yet.
> I want to drop the Kerberos link, and have all systems authenticate
> against the LDAP server.  Does anyone have any suggestions on how to
> do this?  Will Exchange run its mailbox authentication requests
> against the LDAP server?  Or just against the ADC?
> 
> Thanks for any advise or suggestions.

Check out the Samba folks.  I'm told they're the ones figuring out how
to get Windows to play along with non-AD LDAP. :)

-danny



From dan_bethe at yahoo.com  Sat Mar  2 12:36:39 2002
From: dan_bethe at yahoo.com (Dan Bethe)
Date: Sat, 2 Mar 2002 12:36:39 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Mixed Network - single authentication (revisited)
In-Reply-To: <20020301234243.W3896@pianosa.catch22.org>
Message-ID: <20020302203639.354.qmail@web11002.mail.yahoo.com>


> Check out the Samba folks.  I'm told they're the ones figuring out how
> to get Windows to play along with non-AD LDAP. :)

Also, you can write to the OpenLDAP wizards on the open-it.org mailing list. 
They seem to know what's going on.  :)

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - sign up for Fantasy Baseball
http://sports.yahoo.com


From ann at usenix.org  Mon Mar  4 11:57:25 2002
From: ann at usenix.org (Ann Tsai)
Date: Mon, 4 Mar 2002 11:57:25 -0800
Subject: Call for Papers - Call for Papers - 16th Systems Administration
 Conference (LISA 2002)
Message-ID: <a05100305b8a98217af18@[131.106.3.46]>

LISA 2002
November 3-8, 2002
Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
http://www.usenix.org/events/lisa02

The LISA conference has become a focal point for the global community 
of system and network administrators. Once a year, system 
administrators of all specialties and levels of expertise meet to 
exchange ideas, sharpen old skills, learn new techniques, and explore 
the future of the profession. LISA is the one place where all the 
stakeholders in the future of systems administration converge to work 
on the common goal of sustaining the global community of computers 
with an equally global community of dedicated and skilled people.

GET INVOLVED!

LISA 2002 Program Committee invites you to contribute ideas, 
proposals, and papers for invited talks, refereed papers, 
work-in-progress reports, and symposia tracks.

We welcome submissions that address all facets of the practice and 
theory of system and network administration.

The Call for Papers with submission guidelines and topics is now 
available on the USENIX Web site at 
http://www.usenix.org/events/lisa02/cfp/index.html

Submissions are due by April 29, 2002.

System administrators and researchers: this is *your* conference. You 
can foster its community and aid in its success in many ways by 
contributing your ideas and expertise.

We look forward to hearing from you!

Sincerely,
Alva Couch, Tufts University
LISA 2001 Program Chair

=============================================================
LISA 2002 is sponsored by USENIX, the Advanced Computing Systems 
Association, and SAGE, the System Administrators Guild. www.usenix.org
=============================================================





From fabrice at life.net  Tue Mar  5 09:42:01 2002
From: fabrice at life.net (Fabrice Guerini)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:42:01 -0800
Subject: Unpowered by AT&T
In-Reply-To: <200201042124.g04LOma14015@warthog.com>
References: <Your message of "Thu, 27 Dec 2001 13:53:18 PST." <20011227135318.C4895@deer-run.com>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020305094041.0289b258@mail.life.net>

Have You Seen Excite at Home's New SMTP Greeting Message?

220 mx2.corp.home.net ESMTP Sendmail 8.11.6/8.11.6; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 
09:39:53 -0800 (PST) Excite at Home Unpowered By AT&T


--
Fabrice Gu?rini
Palo Alto, CA 94306  [37?25'4.8"N; 122?7'47.6"W]
Phone: (650) 494-3486
Fax: (561) 619-3777

	"Live for today.
	 Work like you don't need the money;
	 Love like you've never been hurt;
	 Dance like nobody's watching."
	              --Christine Comaford, Artemis Ventures
	                Top 25 Women of the Web for 1999



From david at catwhisker.org  Tue Mar  5 10:39:52 2002
From: david at catwhisker.org (David Wolfskill)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 10:39:52 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Unpowered by AT&T
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20020305094041.0289b258@mail.life.net>
Message-ID: <200203051839.g25IdqH16150@bunrab.catwhisker.org>

>Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:42:01 -0800
>From: Fabrice Guerini <fabrice at life.net>

>Have You Seen Excite at Home's New SMTP Greeting Message?

>220 mx2.corp.home.net ESMTP Sendmail 8.11.6/8.11.6; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 
>09:39:53 -0800 (PST) Excite at Home Unpowered By AT&T

:-)

I hadn't noticed that, but I have seen some evidence that they have
someone acting as postmaster at excite.com (finally)....

Cheers,
david       (links to my resume at http://www.catwhisker.org/~david)
-- 
David H. Wolfskill				david at catwhisker.org
I believe it would be irresponsible (and thus, unethical) for me to advise,
recommend, or support the use of any product that is or depends on any
Microsoft product for any purpose other than personal amusement.


From benjy at feen.com  Tue Mar  5 11:51:27 2002
From: benjy at feen.com (Benjy Feen)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 11:51:27 -0800
Subject: Network installation in San Jose?
Message-ID: <20020305115127.D27332@pianosa.catch22.org>

Asking for a friend... replies to me personally, will summarize.

There's a dentist's office in San Jose that desperately needs to
have Cat5 run through it. Anyone have a reference for a solid professional
outfit that can do it? Ideally, it'd be a network-savvy professional
electrician.

Keep on truckin',
Benjy

--
Benjy Feen
benjy(AT)feen.com
http://www.monkeybagel.com


From jones at CSUA.Berkeley.EDU  Tue Mar  5 14:02:30 2002
From: jones at CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (Devin Jones)
Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2002 14:02:30 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Unpowered by AT&T
In-Reply-To: <200203051839.g25IdqH16150@bunrab.catwhisker.org>
Message-ID: <20020305140154.R32345-100000@soda.csua.berkeley.edu>

It's been amusingly changed to:

220 mx2.corp.home.net ESMTP Sendmail 8.11.6/8.11.6; Tue, 5 Mar 2002
14:01:14 -0800 (PST) ...nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be
a witness against himself...


On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, David Wolfskill wrote:

> >Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:42:01 -0800
> >From: Fabrice Guerini <fabrice at life.net>
>
> >Have You Seen Excite at Home's New SMTP Greeting Message?
>
> >220 mx2.corp.home.net ESMTP Sendmail 8.11.6/8.11.6; Tue, 5 Mar 2002
> >09:39:53 -0800 (PST) Excite at Home Unpowered By AT&T
>
> :-)
>
> I hadn't noticed that, but I have seen some evidence that they have
> someone acting as postmaster at excite.com (finally)....
>
> Cheers,
> david       (links to my resume at http://www.catwhisker.org/~david)
> --
> David H. Wolfskill				david at catwhisker.org
> I believe it would be irresponsible (and thus, unethical) for me to advise,
> recommend, or support the use of any product that is or depends on any
> Microsoft product for any purpose other than personal amusement.
>



From nicole at webweaver.net  Tue Mar  5 15:13:15 2002
From: nicole at webweaver.net (Hodge Podge)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 15:13:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Unpowered by AT&T
In-Reply-To: <20020305140154.R32345-100000@soda.csua.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <XFMail.020305151315.nicole@webweaver.net>


 Someone is having fun :)

  Nicole


Connected to mx2.corp.home.net.
Escape character is '^]'.
220 mx2.corp.home.net ESMTP Sendmail 8.11.6/8.11.6; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:00:19
-0800 (PST) Help Help I'm Being Oppressed

Connected to mx.corp.home.net.
Escape character is '^]'.
220 mx-corp.home.net ESMTP Sendmail 8.11.6/8.11.6; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:00:01
-0800 (PST) Help Help I'm Being Dotbombed
QUIT


On 05-Mar-02 I Tawt I Taw A Putty Tat Named Devin Jones say:
> It's been amusingly changed to:
> 
> 220 mx2.corp.home.net ESMTP Sendmail 8.11.6/8.11.6; Tue, 5 Mar 2002
> 14:01:14 -0800 (PST) ...nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be
> a witness against himself...
> 
> 
> On Tue, 5 Mar 2002, David Wolfskill wrote:
> 
>> >Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 09:42:01 -0800
>> >From: Fabrice Guerini <fabrice at life.net>
>>
>> >Have You Seen Excite at Home's New SMTP Greeting Message?
>>
>> >220 mx2.corp.home.net ESMTP Sendmail 8.11.6/8.11.6; Tue, 5 Mar 2002
>> >09:39:53 -0800 (PST) Excite at Home Unpowered By AT&T
>>
>> :-)
>>
>> I hadn't noticed that, but I have seen some evidence that they have
>> someone acting as postmaster at excite.com (finally)....
>>
>> Cheers,
>> david       (links to my resume at http://www.catwhisker.org/~david)
>> --
>> David H. Wolfskill                           david at catwhisker.org
>> I believe it would be irresponsible (and thus, unethical) for me to advise,
>> recommend, or support the use of any product that is or depends on any
>> Microsoft product for any purpose other than personal amusement.
>>


*******                |\ __ /|   (`\             *******
 *   *                 | o_o  |__  ) )             *   *
  * *                 //      \\                    * *
   *    Nicole Harrington | AKA Hodge Podge          *
----------------------(((---(((--------------------------------
  HomePage                      http://www.unixgirl.com/
  DangerMouse Site             http://www.dangermouse.org/
  Photography Site              http://www.deviantimages.com/
  Music Stuff                   http://www.mp3.com/signals

             **   Being Silent - Is Agreeing **  
                            --
 We are the music makers, and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
     --Willy Wonka, Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory.

                 ** Powered by FreeBSD **
----------------------------------------------------------------



From fabrice at life.net  Tue Mar  5 20:37:48 2002
From: fabrice at life.net (Fabrice Guerini)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 20:37:48 -0800
Subject: Unpowered by AT&T
In-Reply-To: <XFMail.020305151315.nicole@webweaver.net>
References: <20020305140154.R32345-100000@soda.csua.berkeley.edu>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020305203644.082a8e90@172.16.1.10>

Sure looks like it:

220 mx2.corp.home.net ESMTP Sendmail 8.11.6/8.11.6; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 
20:35:18 -0800 (PST) http://www.merit.edu/mail.archives/nanog/msg11686.html

Shall we have an Excite at Home SMTP watch? (Or should that be a wake?...)

At 3/5/2002 15:13, Hodge Podge wrote:

>  Someone is having fun :)
>
>   Nicole
>
>
>Connected to mx2.corp.home.net.
>Escape character is '^]'.
>220 mx2.corp.home.net ESMTP Sendmail 8.11.6/8.11.6; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:00:19
>-0800 (PST) Help Help I'm Being Oppressed
>
>Connected to mx.corp.home.net.
>Escape character is '^]'.
>220 mx-corp.home.net ESMTP Sendmail 8.11.6/8.11.6; Tue, 5 Mar 2002 15:00:01
>-0800 (PST) Help Help I'm Being Dotbombed
>QUIT


--
Fabrice Gu?rini
Palo Alto, CA 94306  [37?25'4.8"N; 122?7'47.6"W]
Phone: (650) 494-3486
Fax: (561) 619-3777

	"Live for today.
	 Work like you don't need the money;
	 Love like you've never been hurt;
	 Dance like nobody's watching."
	              --Christine Comaford, Artemis Ventures
	                Top 25 Women of the Web for 1999



From shoshana at billik.com  Tue Mar  5 22:25:23 2002
From: shoshana at billik.com (Shoshana Bella Billik)
Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 22:25:23 -0800
Subject: Fwd: Ruckus Society Tech Toolbox Action Camp Update and DATES!
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020305221911.01b78780@pop.batnet.com>

        Hi, everyone!  I thought that some of y'all might be interested in going to
this event, especially if you're in between jobs.  

                                                                Take care,
                                                                Shoshana

P.S.  Apologies if this message is slightly off-topic -- I'm sure I'll hear about it
from y'all if it is!  ;-)

>Date: Mon, 04 Mar 2002 20:17:23 -0800
>To: techcamp at ruckus.org
>From: Allen Gunn <gunner at ruckus.org>
>Subject: Ruckus Society Tech Toolbox Action Camp Update and DATES!
>
>Well, the wait is finally over. We have dates and a location for the Ruckus
>Society Tech Toolbox Action Camp!
>
>If you're getting this email, you have signed up online or at some time
>expressed interest in staying informed about the camp formerly known as
>'eGenius', The Ruckus Society's Tech Toolbox Action Camp.  If this is in
>error, you can remove yourself from this list by following the instructions at 
>the bottom of this message.
>
>Before coughing up the details, I would like to thank everyone for their
>patience; some of you have been waiting months for date and location
>information, and we've finally got it! Also, if we haven't replied directly to
>your inquiry, we apologize for that as well; we've received hundreds of
>inquiries, and the volume has kept us from delivering as much individual
>attention as we would like. If this email and the updates on the web site don't
>give you the info you need, don't be shy about giving us another shout :^)
>
>That being said, here's the story:
>
>WHERE: The camp will be held at Ocean Song in Occidental, California.  It
>is several hours north of San Francisco, up in the hills above the coast and
>very beautiful.  Its rustic charm will serve as a perfect backdrop for topics
>both geeky and activist.
>
>WHEN AND HOW: After much wonderful input, we've decided to schedule
>the camp as two overlapping gatherings: a tech activist skillshare, leading into
>a tech activist training.  The dates are as follows:
>
>Monday 6/24/02 - Wednesday, 6/26/02 Tech Activist Skillshare. 
>Approximately 50 tech activists currently applying technology in their
>campaigns/activism will gather to discuss the state of tech activism, share
>techniques, compare notes, and brainstorm.  Attendees will be strongly
>encouraged to stay through the week, continuing discussions while
>participating in and helping with training .
>
>Thursday 6/27/02 - Tuesday 7/2/03 Tech Activist Training, as described at
>http://www.ruckus.org/techcamp.html, will offer training to approximately 100
>activists seeking to improve their understanding of how and when to apply
>technology in their campaigns as well as who else is applying it.
>
>The following will be key dates leading up to the camp:
>
>3/15/02 Tech Toolbox Action Camp application posted to Ruckus web site
>4/12/02 Camp applications due
>5/6/02 Applicants notified of application status
>5/6/02 to 5/2702 Attendee participation confirmations (RSVP's)
>
>We've also posted a FAQ on the web site 
>(http://www.ruckus.org/techcampfaq.html) to address some of the most
>commonly asked questions about the camp; check it out and let us know what
>we've missed!
>
>We're still looking for lots of input and help in planning and pulling off the
>camp, and will be mailing out more specific requests for assistance and
>feedback in the near future.  In the meantime, please SPREAD THE WORD
>about the camp FAR and WIDE!
>
>That's all the big news for now, look for more in the near future,
>
>gunner
>
>PS Please note that replies to this email are routed into an automated folder
>and may not be promptly addressed.


*************************************************************
*      	   Shoshana Bella Billik       	*    	shoshana at billik.com     *
* ------------------------------------------- *    	billiksh at batnet.com      *
*    http://www.billik.com/shoshana/ 	*    	sbillik at yahoo.com        *
*************************************************************



From Stewart.Hersey at leland.stanford.edu  Thu Mar  7 11:09:15 2002
From: Stewart.Hersey at leland.stanford.edu (Stewart M. Hersey)
Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 11:09:15 -0800
Subject: SMUG Meets iMac
In-Reply-To: <002701c1c59d$9eb6c500$0200a8c0@pavilion>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020307085652.00b05a30@hersey.pobox.stanford.edu>

Presenting...

SMUG Meets iMac*
http://newma.tv/smh/smug030402

[Produced by Ryan Cohen]

*Video clips assembled, and source file built under OS 9.2.1. 
*Compression of final 2MB clip done with QT 5, under OS X.1

Enjoy!

SMH



From star at betelgeuse.starshine.org  Tue Mar 12 19:20:22 2002
From: star at betelgeuse.starshine.org (Heather)
Date: Tue, 12 Mar 2002 19:20:22 -0800 (PST)
Subject: March 21 7:30 pm, BayLISA meeting
Message-ID: <200203130320.g2D3KMN12271@betelgeuse.starshine.org>


 Hello folks.  Not this week, but the following one, will be the monthly
 meeting of BayLISA, the sysadmins of the Bay Area.

 We'll be hearing from ............. John S. Flowers
					(http://www.johnsflowers.com)

					Founder & Chief Scientist
					nCircle Network Security
					(http://www.ncircle.com/)

 The topic is ...................... Entropy Tango 
					-or-
				     Describe Network Security in two words

 The Date: 21 March 2002		The Time: 7:30 pm
 The Place: Incyte Genomics HQ (no, not Babylon 5 :D )
 		Directions at www.baylisa.org/locations/current.html


 This month from the Treasurer ..... Two for One membership 
   Make a special point of telling your friends and bringing them along.  
   We're having a two for one deal on BayLISA memberships at the meeting 
   -- pay for one person, and two people become members for the next year.

   You have to come to the meeting to get this, though.

   Corporate memberships are of course also gleefully accepted, anytime.
   Together, our members and our corporate sponsors help fund bringing
   in great speakers, and occasional special events like hosting hospitality
   parties at USENIX conferences, or the mid-Summer BayLISA Picnic.  


 Request For Cookies? .............. tell us what you think
   What do you folks think of the snacks layout we have been providing?
   Please let us know.

  
 And in case you don't follow the website -- speaker abstract and bio

   This talk is a frank discussion of the emerging technology issues in
   Network Security.  It will include:
	- hype surrounding Intrusion Detection Systems and why they are
	  flawed (similar to the talk at USENIX/LISA)
	- preventive security measures versus reactive measures
	- the anomaly that is the "Security Guru" and why this person 
	  must not exist for the health, safety and success of security 
	  in the enterprise (academic or commercial)
	- popular misconceptions of network security
	- well spoken tales and humor

   Mr. Flowers provides architecture, design and direction for real-time
   vulnerability assessment, intrusion detection and distributed security
   solutions. Prior to nCircle, he was the chief architect of Inquisit's
   individualized news filtering service. He has also held positions as
   the chief security and internet architect at Utilicorp, and chief
   architect of NeuroSoft. In the early 90's he worked as an engineer for
   Microsoft. Mr. Flowers is a frequent speaker at security conferences
   and is the co-inventor of several patent-pending security technologies
   and was ranked one of the "Top 10 Gurus of Network Security in 2002"
   by TruSecure and Information Security Magazine.

-* Heather Stern * Arch (secretary) BayLISA Board * http://www.baylisa.org/ *-


From Stewart.Hersey at leland.stanford.edu  Wed Mar 13 08:04:02 2002
From: Stewart.Hersey at leland.stanford.edu (Stewart M. Hersey)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 08:04:02 -0800
Subject: Majordomo doesn't recognize MIME
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020312195218.00aaf790@rpam.pobox.stanford.edu
 >
References: <001f01c1ca40$6624f3e0$ddadb2d1@oemcomputer>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020313080018.00b0e068@hersey.pobox.stanford.edu>

Folks,

Would someone like to explain this issue to Rick, please?

Stewart

At 07:57 PM 3/12/2002 -0800, Rick Pam wrote:
>Hi gang --
>
>I have someone using Outlook Express whose queries can't be read by Majordomo--it says they're in MIME format.  This happens from his remote machine outside Stanford (via earthlink).   I've checked and his syntax and address line are correct.
>
>The error message:
>
>
>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: <majordomo at lists.Stanford.EDU>
>>Subject: Majordomo results:
>>
>>>
>>> >>>> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
>>> *** Your message is in MIME format.
>>> *** This server does not know how to process that.
>>> *** Please resend the message in plain text format.
>>> *** Sorry for the inconvenience...
>
>
>I don't know anything about Outlook Express.  Anyone know off the top of your head where to correct this in Outlook Express?


Tools -> Options -> Send [Mail Sending Format = Plain Text]


>Thanks
>
>Rick
>
>Rick Pam
>Department of Physics, Varian 314
>Stanford University
>382 Via Pueblo Mall, Stanford, CA 94305-4060, USA
>Tel:    1-650-725-2365
>Fax:    1-650-723-9389
>email:    rpam at stanford.edu
>
>-++**==--++**==--++**==--++**==--++**==--++**==--++**==
>This message was posted through the Stanford campus mailing list
>server.  If you wish to unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the
>message body of "unsubscribe partners" to majordomo at lists.stanford.edu.
>
>If you wish to learn more about the Expert Partners Program,
>please visit our web site at http://www.stanford.edu/group/partners



From star at betelgeuse.starshine.org  Wed Mar 13 23:12:34 2002
From: star at betelgeuse.starshine.org (Heather)
Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 23:12:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Majordomo doesn't recognize MIME
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020313080018.00b0e068@hersey.pobox.stanford.edu> from
 "Stewart M. Hersey" at "Mar 13, 2002 08:04:02 am"
Message-ID: <200203140712.g2E7CYb07792@betelgeuse.starshine.org>

> Folks,
> 
> Would someone like to explain this issue to Rick, please?
> 
> Stewart
 
It's one of the FAQ at http://www.linuxgazette.com/

We get people trying to send us email in plaintext+HTML all the time; 
most of the answerfolk there refuse to answer such messages, but the more 
kindly of us pass them the link.

Mail list servers should not be expected to handle MIME encoded attachments
during administrivia handling - it's too much of an obvious place to find 
serious processing bugs that may lead to either root or mail-admin exploits.

  . | .   Heather Stern                  |         star at starshine.org
--->*<--- Starshine Technical Services - * - consulting at starshine.org
  ' | `   Sysadmin Support and Training  |        (800) 938-4078

> At 07:57 PM 3/12/2002 -0800, Rick Pam wrote:
> >Hi gang --
> >
> >I have someone using Outlook Express whose queries can't be read by Majordomo--it says they're in MIME format.  This happens from his remote machine outside Stanford (via earthlink).   I've checked and his syntax and address line are correct.
> >
> >The error message:
> >
> >
> >
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>From: <majordomo at lists.Stanford.EDU>
> >>Subject: Majordomo results:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> >>>> This is a multi-part message in MIME format.
> >>> *** Your message is in MIME format.
> >>> *** This server does not know how to process that.
> >>> *** Please resend the message in plain text format.
> >>> *** Sorry for the inconvenience...
> >
> >
> >I don't know anything about Outlook Express.  Anyone know off the top of your head where to correct this in Outlook Express?
> 
> 
> Tools -> Options -> Send [Mail Sending Format = Plain Text]
> 
> 
> >Thanks
> >
> >Rick
> >
> >Rick Pam
> >Department of Physics, Varian 314
> >Stanford University
> >382 Via Pueblo Mall, Stanford, CA 94305-4060, USA
> >Tel:    1-650-725-2365
> >Fax:    1-650-723-9389
> >email:    rpam at stanford.edu
> >
> >-++**==--++**==--++**==--++**==--++**==--++**==--++**==
> >This message was posted through the Stanford campus mailing list
> >server.  If you wish to unsubscribe from this mailing list, send the
> >message body of "unsubscribe partners" to majordomo at lists.stanford.edu.
> >
> >If you wish to learn more about the Expert Partners Program,
> >please visit our web site at http://www.stanford.edu/group/partners
> 



From Stewart.Hersey at leland.stanford.edu  Thu Mar 14 08:12:20 2002
From: Stewart.Hersey at leland.stanford.edu (Stewart M. Hersey)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 08:12:20 -0800
Subject: Majordomo doesn't recognize MIME
In-Reply-To: <200203140712.g2E7CYb07792@betelgeuse.starshine.org>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020313080018.00b0e068@hersey.pobox.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314080137.00b11578@hersey.pobox.stanford.edu>

Thanks Heather! 

Rick, is everything working out now?

*S*

At 11:12 PM 3/13/2002 -0800, Heather wrote:
>> Folks,
>> 
>> Would someone like to explain this issue to Rick, please?
>> 
>> Stewart
> 
>It's one of the FAQ at http://www.linuxgazette.com/
>
>We get people trying to send us email in plaintext+HTML all the time; 
>most of the answerfolk there refuse to answer such messages, but the more 
>kindly of us pass them the link.
>
>Mail list servers should not be expected to handle MIME encoded attachments
>during administrivia handling - it's too much of an obvious place to find 
>serious processing bugs that may lead to either root or mail-admin exploits.
>
>  . | .   Heather Stern                  |         star at starshine.org
>--->*<--- Starshine Technical Services - * - consulting at starshine.org
>  ' | `   Sysadmin Support and Training  |        (800) 938-4078



From star at betelgeuse.starshine.org  Thu Mar 14 09:44:56 2002
From: star at betelgeuse.starshine.org (Heather)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 09:44:56 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Majordomo doesn't recognize MIME
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314080137.00b11578@hersey.pobox.stanford.edu> from
 "Stewart M. Hersey" at "Mar 14, 2002 08:12:20 am"
Message-ID: <200203141744.g2EHiuR09860@betelgeuse.starshine.org>

> Thanks Heather! 
> 
> Rick, is everything working out now?
> 
> *S*
 
Hmm, someone sent me a private note whining about me answering this. 
Essentially they mope that we should have sent him packing to his helpdesk.

To which I say, anywhere that the behavior of sending encoded-mail to a 
plaintext venue can be squished, the better.  Adding *why* maillists would
be a plaintext venue, I feel might have been useful to one of us out there
whenever fielding the same question - even on their own internal helpdesk.
This is a question I would have answered for free anywhere, even being 
interrupted in the break-room or something.

Rick, if you need more general help getting up to speed with UNIX matters
I can point you at the local user groups listings, BALE and BABE:
	http://www.linuxmafia.com/bale/
	http://www.svbug.com/babe/

Now, back to sysadmin matters:  my antispam "attachment detectors" are
catching a bumper crop of viral/trojan attachments this week, one claiming
to be an update from Microsoft.  People with gulible end-users, please be
wary...

  . | .   Heather Stern                  |         star at starshine.org
--->*<--- Starshine Technical Services - * - consulting at starshine.org
  ' | `   Sysadmin Support and Training  |        (800) 938-4078


From Stewart.Hersey at leland.stanford.edu  Thu Mar 14 10:06:34 2002
From: Stewart.Hersey at leland.stanford.edu (Stewart M. Hersey)
Date: Thu, 14 Mar 2002 10:06:34 -0800
Subject: Update From Microsoft
In-Reply-To: <200203141744.g2EHiuR09860@betelgeuse.starshine.org>
References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314080137.00b11578@hersey.pobox.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314095539.02a2dae8@hersey.pobox.stanford.edu>

Here's the most current information:
http://www.lopht.com/security_news/index.html#1
http://www.cert.org/incident_notes/IN-2002-02.html

At 09:44 AM 3/14/2002 -0800, Heather wrote:

>Now, back to sysadmin matters:  my antispam "attachment detectors" are
>catching a bumper crop of viral/trojan attachments this week, one claiming
>to be an update from Microsoft.  People with gulible end-users, please be
>wary...



From rpam at stanford.edu  Fri Mar 15 10:31:58 2002
From: rpam at stanford.edu (Rick Pam)
Date: Fri, 15 Mar 2002 10:31:58 -0800
Subject: Majordomo doesn't recognize MIME
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314080137.00b11578@hersey.pobox.stanford.e
 du>
References: <200203140712.g2E7CYb07792@betelgeuse.starshine.org>
 <5.1.0.14.2.20020313080018.00b0e068@hersey.pobox.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020315103024.00abd530@rpam.pobox.stanford.edu>

I gave the info to the person, and haven't heard back,so assume it's 
ok.  This did spur me to check that my Eudora is configured for plain text 
(it wasn't).

I posted a summary to partners at lists

Thanks for all your help, Stewart and friends.

Rick

At 08:12 AM 03/14/2002 -0800, Stewart M. Hersey wrote:
>Thanks Heather!
>
>Rick, is everything working out now?
>
>*S*
>
>At 11:12 PM 3/13/2002 -0800, Heather wrote:
> >> Folks,
> >>
> >> Would someone like to explain this issue to Rick, please?
> >>
> >> Stewart
> >
> >It's one of the FAQ at http://www.linuxgazette.com/
> >
> >We get people trying to send us email in plaintext+HTML all the time;
> >most of the answerfolk there refuse to answer such messages, but the more
> >kindly of us pass them the link.
> >
> >Mail list servers should not be expected to handle MIME encoded attachments
> >during administrivia handling - it's too much of an obvious place to find
> >serious processing bugs that may lead to either root or mail-admin exploits.
> >
> >  . | .   Heather Stern                  |         star at starshine.org
> >--->*<--- Starshine Technical Services - * - consulting at starshine.org
> >  ' | `   Sysadmin Support and Training  |        (800) 938-4078




From joebsd1 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 16 14:04:15 2002
From: joebsd1 at yahoo.com (joe bsd)
Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 14:04:15 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Update From Microsoft
In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.2.20020314095539.02a2dae8@hersey.pobox.stanford.edu>
Message-ID: <20020316220415.28545.qmail@web20110.mail.yahoo.com>

That's a good one, "Security Update".
This got me thinking, "What will they try next time?"

Does anyone have ideas about how they will try to sneak
in the viruses next time?

Guy

--- "Stewart M. Hersey" <Stewart.Hersey at leland.stanford.edu> wrote:
> Here's the most current information:
> http://www.lopht.com/security_news/index.html#1
> http://www.cert.org/incident_notes/IN-2002-02.html
> 
> At 09:44 AM 3/14/2002 -0800, Heather wrote:
> 
> >Now, back to sysadmin matters:  my antispam "attachment detectors" are
> >catching a bumper crop of viral/trojan attachments this week, one
> claiming
> >to be an update from Microsoft.  People with gulible end-users, please
> be
> >wary...
> 


=====
------------------------------------------------
When you buy a new Sun Server,
      you could be putting another American out of work.

Ask me how.
------------------------------------------------

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Sports - live college hoops coverage
http://sports.yahoo.com/


From extasia at mindspring.com  Tue Mar 19 10:36:38 2002
From: extasia at mindspring.com (David Alban)
Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 10:36:38 -0800
Subject: (fwd) AIX SysAdmin / Developer Support
Message-ID: <20020319103638.B22024@new.gerasimov.net>

Greetings!

This is from a recruiter.  Maybe someone here would be interested.

David

----- Forwarded message from MindSource Software <nikki at mindsrc.com> -----

> Date: Mon, 18 Mar 2002 17:04:57 -0800 (PST)
> From: MindSource Software <nikki at mindsrc.com>

> Reply-To: nikki at mindsrc.com
> Subject: AIX SysAdmin / Developer Support

>          Kindly respond to me if you are interested in pursuing
> this opening for an AIX system administrator or can make a 
> referral!  We'll know more about this opening mid week.
> 
> 
> Nikki 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> # -----
> Title: AIX Sys Admin / Developer Support 
> MindSource Req 3684
> Type: full-time perm
> 
> Description:
> 
> We've got immediate requirements for an AIX system administrator
> with foundations in Solaris to help in the port of a complex messaging
> software package.  You'll be supporting developers moving from a 
> Solaris reference port to AIX.  
> 
> There are multiple openings, and we will hire around the first person
> brought in to balance the effort.  
> 
> Qualifications:
> 
> 	* 4+ years AIX system admin experience 
> 	* 6+ Solaris experience 
> 	* Experience running and supporting software labs 
> 	* C programming and source code support background 
> 	* development support
> 
> 
> Mail list services:
>        Send a blank email note to one of the following accounts 
>        for the response desired:
>                 jobs at mindsrc.com               # open jobs list
>                 info at mindsrc.com               # info about MindSource
>                 map at mindsrc.com                # receive a map to MindSource
>                 beer at mindsrc.com               # beer micro-brew with us!
>                 subscribe at mindsrc.com          # join the BOF mailing list
>                 bof at mindsrc.com                # info about MindSource BOFs
> 
> 		OR (r)eply to events at mindsrc.com 
> 		with the indicated Subject: 
> 	            Subject: removeall             # un-join all mailing lists
>                 Subject: remove                # remove from BoF mailer  
>                 Subject: rsvp                  # rsvp to the next BOF
> 
> 
> # ------
> This message has been sent in accordance with Federal and State Legislation 
> regarding unsolicited commercial e-mail (UCE).  To have an address removed 
> from future announcements please use the mailbot, above, or simply call
> our office: 650.254.8909(voice)  		650.254.8907(fax). 
> 
> # ------

----- End forwarded message -----

-- 
Live in a world of your own, but always welcome visitors.
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From star at betelgeuse.starshine.org  Wed Mar 20 10:49:59 2002
From: star at betelgeuse.starshine.org (Heather)
Date: Wed, 20 Mar 2002 10:49:59 -0800
Subject: BayLISA tomorrow (3/21) 7:30 pm
Message-ID: <200203201849.g2KInxT03791@betelgeuse.starshine.org>

If you're an interrupt-driven soul like me then you might enjoy this reminder
that BayLISA is meeting tomorrow....

...the third Thursday of the month, so if you're reading this on Thursday 
that'd be tonight :D

SPECIAL THIS MONTH - Two memberships for the price of one!  While it's still
a little ahead you can use the website to prepare your data, and just bring
your checkbook to the meeting to complete your membership.

        Topic    - Entropy Tango -or- describe Network Security in Two Words
        Speaker  - John S Flowers, nCircle
        When     - 7:30 pm until oh, 9:30 or so... expect to get out around 10.
        Where    - Incyte Genomics HQ
                   3160 Porter Drive
                   Palo Alto

Porter Drive is between Foothill Expressway and El Camino, along Page Mill Rd.
Travelling:
   south (From Foothill/280) -- turn right
   north (from El Camino)    -- turn left

It's the third driveway on the right: 
   1. Wall Street Journal 
   2. right next to 3 
   3. silver monolith with Lockheed Martin and Incyte Genomics logos on it 
      - shiny enough that they're both hard to see.  

Incyte is the building in the back.  We'll see you there if you can make it :)

A bunch of us like to go out afterwards for pizza, sandwiches, snacks, drinks,
and more conversation.

-* Heather Stern * Arch (secretary) BayLISA Board * http://www.baylisa.org/ *-



From jones at CSUA.Berkeley.EDU  Thu Mar 21 17:28:34 2002
From: jones at CSUA.Berkeley.EDU (Devin Jones)
Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 17:28:34 -0800 (PST)
Subject: meeting rideP
In-Reply-To: <200203201849.g2KInxT03791@betelgeuse.starshine.org>
Message-ID: <20020321165923.G32469-100000@soda.csua.berkeley.edu>

I'm looking for a ride from the meeting to either Freemont bart (or any
other bartstation), or even back to Berkeley if possible.  Anyone going my
way?

-Devin

On Wed, 20 Mar 2002, Heather wrote:

> If you're an interrupt-driven soul like me then you might enjoy this reminder
> that BayLISA is meeting tomorrow....
>
> ...the third Thursday of the month, so if you're reading this on Thursday
> that'd be tonight :D
>
> SPECIAL THIS MONTH - Two memberships for the price of one!  While it's still
> a little ahead you can use the website to prepare your data, and just bring
> your checkbook to the meeting to complete your membership.
>
>         Topic    - Entropy Tango -or- describe Network Security in Two Words
>         Speaker  - John S Flowers, nCircle
>         When     - 7:30 pm until oh, 9:30 or so... expect to get out around 10.
>         Where    - Incyte Genomics HQ
>                    3160 Porter Drive
>                    Palo Alto
>
> Porter Drive is between Foothill Expressway and El Camino, along Page Mill Rd.
> Travelling:
>    south (From Foothill/280) -- turn right
>    north (from El Camino)    -- turn left
>
> It's the third driveway on the right:
>    1. Wall Street Journal
>    2. right next to 3
>    3. silver monolith with Lockheed Martin and Incyte Genomics logos on it
>       - shiny enough that they're both hard to see.
>
> Incyte is the building in the back.  We'll see you there if you can make it :)
>
> A bunch of us like to go out afterwards for pizza, sandwiches, snacks, drinks,
> and more conversation.
>
> -* Heather Stern * Arch (secretary) BayLISA Board * http://www.baylisa.org/ *-
>



From shoshana at billik.com  Fri Mar 22 00:25:10 2002
From: shoshana at billik.com (Shoshana Bella Billik)
Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 00:25:10 -0800
Subject: Fwd: Tech Toolbox Action Camp Application Posted
Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.1.20020322002420.025b2020@pop.batnet.com>


>Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 00:01:32 -0800
>To: techcamp at ruckus.org
>From: Allen Gunn <gunner at ruckus.org>
>Subject: Tech Toolbox Action Camp Application Posted
>
>The application for the Ruckus Society Tech Toolbox Action Camp has been 
>posted to the Ruckus web site! For your click-through convenience, it can be
>found at
>
>        http://www.ruckus.org
>
>Applications are due back to Ruckus by April 18th. Please check it out and let
>us know of any questions!
>
>We look forward to hearing from you,
>gunner
>
>PS Please note that replies to this email are routed into an automated folder
>and may not be promptly addressed.


*************************************************************
*      	   Shoshana Bella Billik       	*             shoshana at billik.com               *
* ------------------------------------ *    	    billiksh at batnet.com               *
*    http://www.billik.com/shoshana/ 	*    	    sbillik at yahoo.com                 *
*************************************************************



From strata at virtual.net  Sat Mar 23 14:23:12 2002
From: strata at virtual.net (Strata Rose Chalup)
Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 14:23:12 -0800
Subject: domain-name registrar slamming is on the rise...
Message-ID: <3C9D004F.82168FA1@virtual.net>


I've heard on some other lists that many folks are getting "renewal
notices" from Verisign/NSI even if they are registered with various
OpenSRS registrars.  These are USMail paper forms, which will say
they are an expiration notice, and that you must renew now to avoid
service interruption for your domain.

Buried in the fine print, often on the back, is "by signing, the 
registrant agrees to the Verisign Domain Transfer Agreement...".
When phone companies do this to trick you into changing long-distance
service, it's called slamming.  If you've gotten one (or more!) of
these notices, here is where to complain:

>ICANN Registrar Complaint Form (hosted at InterNIC)
>http://www.internic.net/cgi/registrars/problem-report.cgi
>
>VeriSign Registry Customer Service
>info at verisign-grs.com
>Phone: 703-948-3200

cheers,
Strata

PS- I have no affiliation with ICANN except as a disgruntled member-at-
large (don't go there!), and none with Verisign either (ditto).  OpenSRS
rocks, and my affiliation with it is solely as a satisfied customer of
one of the dozens of OpenSRS registries out there.  

-- 
========================================================================
Strata Rose Chalup [KF6NBZ]                      strata "@" virtual.net
VirtualNet Consulting                            http://www.virtual.net/
 ** Project Management & Architecture for ISP/ASP Systems Integration **
=========================================================================


From dcurry at cariocas.com  Sun Mar 24 10:08:09 2002
From: dcurry at cariocas.com (Daniel Curry)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 10:08:09 -0800
Subject: domain-name registrar slamming is on the rise...
Message-ID: <731E36372B5FD248AF790189519A32C1118F97@mailhub.cgtime.com>

I got the same offers on 5 domains registered thru register.com.  I
called Verisign support (number is on the form), and asked why they were
trying to slam domains, like long distance carriers do.   I got dead
silence on the phone.  I had been disconnected.  I then registereed a
complaint against Verisign with the Better Business Bureau of SF and
also sent an e-mail with a scanned copy of the letter/renewal froms
(fornt and back) to the California State Corporation Commision.  I
expect to hear from someone near the end of next week.
 
Multiple fronts of attack by consumers is the best way to put an end to
this quickly.  Involving government agencies that already have a history
of siding with the consumer on this type of fraudulent transfer (see
long distance slamming) will help greatly.
 

	-----Original Message----- 
	From: Strata Rose Chalup 
	Sent: Sat 3/23/2002 2:23 PM 
	To: baylisa at baylisa.org 
	Cc: 
	Subject: domain-name registrar slamming is on the rise...
	
	


	I've heard on some other lists that many folks are getting
"renewal
	notices" from Verisign/NSI even if they are registered with
various
	OpenSRS registrars.  These are USMail paper forms, which will
say
	they are an expiration notice, and that you must renew now to
avoid
	service interruption for your domain.
	
	Buried in the fine print, often on the back, is "by signing, the
	registrant agrees to the Verisign Domain Transfer Agreement...".
	When phone companies do this to trick you into changing
long-distance
	service, it's called slamming.  If you've gotten one (or more!)
of
	these notices, here is where to complain:
	
	>ICANN Registrar Complaint Form (hosted at InterNIC)
	>http://www.internic.net/cgi/registrars/problem-report.cgi
	>
	>VeriSign Registry Customer Service
	>info at verisign-grs.com
	>Phone: 703-948-3200
	
	cheers,
	Strata
	
	PS- I have no affiliation with ICANN except as a disgruntled
member-at-
	large (don't go there!), and none with Verisign either (ditto).
OpenSRS
	rocks, and my affiliation with it is solely as a satisfied
customer of
	one of the dozens of OpenSRS registries out there. 
	
	--
	
========================================================================
	Strata Rose Chalup [KF6NBZ]                      strata "@"
virtual.net
	VirtualNet Consulting
http://www.virtual.net/
	 ** Project Management & Architecture for ISP/ASP Systems
Integration **
	
========================================================================
=
	

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From strata at virtual.net  Sun Mar 24 13:05:17 2002
From: strata at virtual.net (Strata Rose Chalup)
Date: Sun, 24 Mar 2002 13:05:17 -0800
Subject: it's getting ugly out there again!
Message-ID: <3C9E3F8C.98F83A7B@virtual.net>


Take a look at the latest snake in the grass from the copyright 
industry-- it's the SSSCA all over again, plus extra.  The broad
and comprehensive technology provisions would affect many of the
components we use (starting with disk drives, but even touching
things like compact flash cards, PCMCIA storage cards, etc).  The
legal provisions are an even bigger kettle of fish, and will change
the way that any network/user base is administered, plus opening
up (as I understand it) personal civil/criminal liability for
sysadmins.  Yeek.  I hope I'm wrong on the last part especially.

I've taken the liberty of sending Cindy Cohn of the EFF a request
for her or someone else from the EFF to come do a 10-15 minute
briefing on this as a pre-meeting chat for April or May.  Here's
some info:

http://www.eff.org/alerts/20020322_eff_cbdtpa_alert.html

and

> Date: Thu, 21 Mar 2002 22:01:40 -0500
> From: Declan McCullagh <declan at well.com>
> To: cryptography at wasabisystems.com
> Subject: Text of Sen. Hollings' revised SSSCA, now called the CBDTPA
> 
> Wired News article on the CBDTPA:
> http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,51245,00.html
>    The bill, called the Consumer Broadband and Digital Television
>    Promotion Act (CBDTPA), prohibits the sale or distribution of nearly
>    any kind of electronic device -- unless that device includes
>    copy-protection standards to be set by the federal government.
> 
> The text of the Consumer Broadband and Digital Television Promotion
> Act (CBDTPA) is available here:
> http://www.politechbot.com/docs/cbdtpa/
> 
> Here's Sen. Fritz Hollings' (D-SC) statement and press release:
> http://www.politechbot.com/docs/cbdtpa/hollings.cbdtpa.release.032102.html
> 
> Statements from supporters and opponents:
> http://www.politechbot.com/docs/cbdtpa/mpaa.cbdtpa.release.032102.html
> http://www.politechbot.com/docs/cbdtpa/riaa.cbdtpa.release.032102.html
> http://www.politechbot.com/docs/cbdtpa/bsa.cspp.iti.release.032102.html
> 
> Archive on SSSCA (now, of course, called the CBDTPA):
> http://www.politechbot.com/cgi-bin/politech.cgi?name=sssca
> 
> -Declan
-- 
========================================================================
Strata Rose Chalup [KF6NBZ]                      strata "@" virtual.net
VirtualNet Consulting                            http://www.virtual.net/
 ** Project Management & Architecture for ISP/ASP Systems Integration **
=========================================================================


From ann at usenix.org  Mon Mar 25 13:39:16 2002
From: ann at usenix.org (Ann Tsai)
Date: Mon, 25 Mar 2002 13:39:16 -0800
Subject: USENIX Annual Technical Conference 2002
Message-ID: <a05100307b8c5484496c9@[131.106.3.46]>

USENIX Annual Technical Conference 2002
June 10-15, 2002
Monterey Conference Center - Monterey, California
http://www.usenix.org/events/usenix02

Register by May 17 and save $150!

Join peers, research and industry leaders in Monterey, CA, at the 
USENIX Annual Technical Conference for 3 days of tutorials and 3 days 
of technical sessions.

Highlights include:

* TUTORIALS: With a focus on security, our technical tutorials offer 
practical techniques that you can put to immediate use.  Here's a 
sampling:

An Introduction to Computer Security
Security Threats and Solutions
Building Secure Software
Real-World Intrusion Detection: Problems and Solutions
Practical UNIX Cryptography
Issues in UNIX Infrastructure Design
Practical Wireless IP: Concepts, Administration, and Security

* KEYNOTE ADDRESS by Professor Lawrence Lessig from Stanford 
University whose talk "The Internet's Coming Silent Spring" will show 
how the Internet, originally built to enable neutral and unrestrained 
innovation, is now being undermined by those who were threatened by 
it's original network architecture.

* FREENIX SESSIONS refereed track is the best place to hear about the 
latest developments from the freely-redistributable software 
community. Whether you're interested in hearing about Linux, *BSD, or 
X11-based graphical environments, or you just want a look at some of 
the hot new work being made available to the public, the FREENIX 
track has something for you.

* INVITED TALKS on Internet standards, air traffic management 
systems, DNS, internet security, CNN.com, marketability of open 
source projects, information visualization, network security, and 
open source development.

* VENDOR EXHIBITION featuring innovative companies, products and 
services.  See demonstrations of innovative products and services and 
get in-depth answers from well-informed company representatives.

For more information and to register, visit:
http://www.usenix.org/events/usenix02/

=============================================================
The 2002 USENIX Annual Technical Conference is sponsored by
USENIX, the Advanced Computing Systems Association.   www.usenix.org
=============================================================



From hal at deer-run.com  Thu Mar 28 13:41:20 2002
From: hal at deer-run.com (Hal Pomeranz)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 13:41:20 -0800
Subject: Sun Netra jumpstart issue
Message-ID: <20020328134120.G5059@deer-run.com>

I'm attempting to jumpstart a Sun Netra X1 from the Solaris 8 (10/01)
image.  Running into a problem I've not seen before:

   Executing last command: boot net - install                            
   Boot device: /pci at 1f,0/ethernet at c  File and args: - install
   Using Onboard Transceiver - Link Up. 
   2ae00 
   Server IP address: 192.168.1.1
   Client IP address: 192.168.1.2
   Using Onboard Transceiver - Link Up. 
   SunOS Release 5.8 Version Generic_108528-11 64-bit
   Copyright 1983-2001 Sun Microsystems, Inc.  All rights reserved.
   Cannot load drivers for /pci at 1f,0/ethernet at c
   Can't load the root filesystem
   Type  'go' to resume
   ok    

My read on this is that it's loading the kernel but can't find the
drivers for the Netra's ethernet device (and therefore can't get the
rest of the root file system via NFS).  This would lead me to believe
my jumpstart image needs a patch of some sort from Sun to include 
this driver.

Any clues from anybody on this?

-- 
Hal Pomeranz, Founder/CEO       Deer Run Associates       hal at deer-run.com
     Network Connectivity and Security, Systems Management, Training


From hal at deer-run.com  Thu Mar 28 13:48:58 2002
From: hal at deer-run.com (Hal Pomeranz)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 13:48:58 -0800
Subject: Sun Netra jumpstart issue
In-Reply-To: <20020328134120.G5059@deer-run.com>; from hal@deer-run.com on Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 01:41:20PM -0800
References: <20020328134120.G5059@deer-run.com>
Message-ID: <20020328134858.H5059@deer-run.com>

On Thu Mar 28 01:41, Hal Pomeranz wrote:
> I'm attempting to jumpstart a Sun Netra X1 from the Solaris 8 (10/01)
> image.  Running into a problem I've not seen before:
> 
>    Executing last command: boot net - install                            
>    Boot device: /pci at 1f,0/ethernet at c  File and args: - install
>    Using Onboard Transceiver - Link Up. 
>    2ae00 
>    Server IP address: 192.168.1.1
>    Client IP address: 192.168.1.2
>    Using Onboard Transceiver - Link Up. 
>    SunOS Release 5.8 Version Generic_108528-11 64-bit
>    Copyright 1983-2001 Sun Microsystems, Inc.  All rights reserved.
>    Cannot load drivers for /pci at 1f,0/ethernet at c
>    Can't load the root filesystem
>    Type  'go' to resume
>    ok    
> 
> My read on this is that it's loading the kernel but can't find the
> drivers for the Netra's ethernet device (and therefore can't get the
> rest of the root file system via NFS).  This would lead me to believe
> my jumpstart image needs a patch of some sort from Sun to include 
> this driver.
> 
> Any clues from anybody on this?

*smack*  Read the docs, Hal...

   http://www.sun.com/products-n-solutions/hardware/docs/pdf/806-6137-11.pdf

Sorry for the wasted bandwidth.

-- 
Hal Pomeranz, Founder/CEO       Deer Run Associates       hal at deer-run.com
     Network Connectivity and Security, Systems Management, Training


From dcurry at cariocas.com  Thu Mar 28 15:04:49 2002
From: dcurry at cariocas.com (Daniel Curry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:04:49 -0800
Subject: Terminal services and Linux
Message-ID: <731E36372B5FD248AF790189519A32C1118F9E@mailhub.cgtime.com>

Does anyone know of a way to access MS Terminal Services from a
Linux/Unix workstation running X?

Thanks

Daniel Curry


From jxh at jxh.com  Thu Mar 28 15:40:35 2002
From: jxh at jxh.com (Jim Hickstein)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:40:35 -0800
Subject: Terminal services and Linux
In-Reply-To: <731E36372B5FD248AF790189519A32C1118F9E@mailhub.cgtime.com>
References: <731E36372B5FD248AF790189519A32C1118F9E@mailhub.cgtime.com>
Message-ID: <276314.1017330035@[192.168.4.134]>

Put VNC on in instead?

--On Thursday, March 28, 2002 3:04 PM -0800 Daniel Curry 
<dcurry at cariocas.com> wrote:

> Does anyone know of a way to access MS Terminal Services from a
> Linux/Unix workstation running X?
>
> Thanks
>
> Daniel Curry




From dod1450 at mindspring.com  Thu Mar 28 15:50:37 2002
From: dod1450 at mindspring.com (Daniel Curry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:50:37 -0500
Subject: Terminal services and Linux
Message-ID: <Springmail.0994.1017359437.0.35269500@webmail.atl.earthlink.net>

  Dan, IF you do find out please pass it along.
 I am currently using Sun's sunpci solution.


On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:04:49 -0800 Daniel Curry <dcurry at cariocas.com> wrote:

Does anyone know of a way to access MS Terminal Services from a
Linux/Unix workstation running X?

Thanks

Daniel Curry



From jxh at jxh.com  Thu Mar 28 16:05:07 2002
From: jxh at jxh.com (Jim Hickstein)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:05:07 -0800
Subject: Terminal services and Linux
In-Reply-To: <276314.1017330035@[192.168.4.134]>
References: <731E36372B5FD248AF790189519A32C1118F9E@mailhub.cgtime.com>
 <276314.1017330035@[192.168.4.134]>
Message-ID: <364602.1017331507@[192.168.4.134]>

s/in/it.  Boy, I'm getting sloppy lately.

--On Thursday, March 28, 2002 3:40 PM -0800 Jim Hickstein <jxh at jxh.com> 
wrote:

> Put VNC on in instead?


From joebsd1 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 28 16:16:20 2002
From: joebsd1 at yahoo.com (joe bsd)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:16:20 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Terminal services and Linux
In-Reply-To: <Springmail.0994.1017359437.0.35269500@webmail.atl.earthlink.net>
Message-ID: <20020329001620.89144.qmail@web20108.mail.yahoo.com>


Is this vnc a suitable solution/alternative? 

http://www.uk.research.att.com/vnc/

--Guy


--- Daniel  Curry <dod1450 at mindspring.com> wrote:
>   Dan, IF you do find out please pass it along.
>  I am currently using Sun's sunpci solution.
> 
> 
> On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 15:04:49 -0800 Daniel Curry <dcurry at cariocas.com>
> wrote:
> 
> Does anyone know of a way to access MS Terminal Services from a
> Linux/Unix workstation running X?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Daniel Curry
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?
http://movies.yahoo.com/


From ulf at Alameda.net  Thu Mar 28 16:19:18 2002
From: ulf at Alameda.net (Ulf Zimmermann)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:19:18 -0800
Subject: Terminal services and Linux
In-Reply-To: <276314.1017330035@[192.168.4.134]>; from jxh@jxh.com on Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 03:40:35PM -0800
References: <731E36372B5FD248AF790189519A32C1118F9E@mailhub.cgtime.com> <276314.1017330035@[192.168.4.134]>
Message-ID: <20020328161918.U62601@seven.alameda.net>

On Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 03:40:35PM -0800, Jim Hickstein wrote:
> Put VNC on in instead?

VNC is single user, Terminal Services allows multiple people
have thier Windows desktop and run applications.

> 
> --On Thursday, March 28, 2002 3:04 PM -0800 Daniel Curry 
> <dcurry at cariocas.com> wrote:
> 
> > Does anyone know of a way to access MS Terminal Services from a
> > Linux/Unix workstation running X?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Daniel Curry
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Regards, Ulf.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Ulf Zimmermann, 1525 Pacific Ave., Alameda, CA-94501, #: 510-865-0204
You can find my resume at: http://seven.Alameda.net/~ulf/resume.html


From gwen at reptiles.org  Thu Mar 28 16:34:48 2002
From: gwen at reptiles.org (Gwendolynn ferch Elydyr)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 19:34:48 -0500 (EST)
Subject: Hunting for a home for wayward hardware
Message-ID: <20020328193233.O40234-100000@iguana.reptiles.org>


Through the moving process, we've discovered no less than _5_ T3 CSU/DSU
Access Multiplexors in our apartment.

They're DL3100s, w/ HSSI - and I'd dearly like to see them go to somewhere
better than the dump.

If anyone's interested, please email ASAP (so that you'll get them
before the dump does).

If you have pointers to someone who might be interested in them, that
wouldn't be a bad thing either.

The ecofreak in me twitches at the idea of just shipping them off to
the dump - and the technoweenie thinks that you can always do _something
with old hardware...

cheers!
==========================================================================
"A cat spends her life conflicted between a deep, passionate and profound
desire for fish and an equally deep, passionate and profound desire to
avoid getting wet.  This is the defining metaphor of my life right now."



From berry at housebsd.org  Thu Mar 28 16:50:06 2002
From: berry at housebsd.org (Sean Berry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:50:06 -0600 (CST)
Subject: Terminal services and Linux
In-Reply-To: <20020328161918.U62601@seven.alameda.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.NEB.4.10.10203281849370.992-100000@corona.housebsd.org>



On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Ulf Zimmermann wrote:
> On Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 03:40:35PM -0800, Jim Hickstein wrote:
> > Put VNC on in instead?
> 
> VNC is single user, Terminal Services allows multiple people
> have thier Windows desktop and run applications.

You can run multiple instances of Xvnc.  :)
--
Sean Berry works with many flavors of UNIX, but especially Solaris/SPARC and
NetBSD.  His hobbies include graphics and raytracing.  He drinks coke mostly.
His opinions are not necessarily those of his employers.        650/281-6610 



From benjy at feen.com  Thu Mar 28 16:50:28 2002
From: benjy at feen.com (Benjy Feen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:50:28 -0800
Subject: Terminal services and Linux
In-Reply-To: <731E36372B5FD248AF790189519A32C1118F9E@mailhub.cgtime.com>; from dcurry@cariocas.com on Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 03:04:49PM -0800
References: <731E36372B5FD248AF790189519A32C1118F9E@mailhub.cgtime.com>
Message-ID: <20020328165028.B4645@pianosa.catch22.org>

On Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 03:04:49PM -0800, Daniel Curry wrote:
> Does anyone know of a way to access MS Terminal Services from a
> Linux/Unix workstation running X?
> 

_YES_!

rdesktop.

http://www.rdesktop.org/

Sure, it's crashy, but when it works, it works.

Yay rdesktop!

--
Benjy Feen
benjy(AT)feen.com
http://www.monkeybagel.com


From dan_bethe at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 28 17:09:44 2002
From: dan_bethe at yahoo.com (Dan Bethe)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:09:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Hunting for a home for wayward hardware
In-Reply-To: <20020328193233.O40234-100000@iguana.reptiles.org>
Message-ID: <20020329010944.34755.qmail@web11002.mail.yahoo.com>

Hi there Gwendolynn.  What a great name.  There's an organization which all
technoweenies and administrative professionals in general should be aware of. 
Industrial Surplus Foundation (http://isfisf.org) wants your functional junk. 
Computer software and hardware, office supplies, office furniture, cleaning
supplies, vehicles, etc.

All of it gets sold at extremely reduced prices, usually 10% of current market
value, to a ton of various nonprofit and community related organizations.  They
occasionally sell a couple items at market value just to pay their own
electricity bill and rent and such; it's purely run by unpaid volunteers,
including the founders.  It's in the East Bay, in Pleasanton, hidden behind
Club Sport and the Hyatt.

Virtually no mainstream computer equipment is too obsolete.  Their clientele
are usually computer novices but are willing to do a lot with a little.

If you have some hours, you can contact them about their volunteer structure at
their sites in Pleasanton and Hayward.  At the least they take volunteers every
Saturday to fix up all the computers, and then other days per month too. 
They're great people -- true professionals.

=====
Ambassador Communication Services -=- http://ambcomm.com
   Managed Teleconferencing and Transcription Services

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Movies - coverage of the 74th Academy Awards?
http://movies.yahoo.com/


From arsen at certaintysolutions.com  Thu Mar 28 16:13:30 2002
From: arsen at certaintysolutions.com (Thomas J. Arseneault)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 16:13:30 -0800
Subject: Terminal services and Linux
In-Reply-To: <364602.1017331507@[192.168.4.134]>
Message-ID: <000101c1d6b6$8e60b920$cf01a8c0@zapper>

Comparing observed screen refresh rates between the two (on a litely loaded
10Mb netowrk) I would opt for Terminal Services, but VNC is the easier of
the two to get running on Linux. Was'nt there a Web based interface to
Terminal Services?

**********************************************
Tom Arseneault
System Admin.
Certainty Solutions, formerly Global Networking and Computing (GNAC).
"Certainty in an Uncertain World"
arsen at certaintysolutions.com
http://web.corp.rwc.crtsol.com
**********************************************

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-baylisa at baylisa.org [mailto:owner-baylisa at baylisa.org]On
> Behalf Of Jim Hickstein
> Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 4:05 PM
> To: baylisa at baylisa.org
> Subject: Re: Terminal services and Linux
>
>
> s/in/it.  Boy, I'm getting sloppy lately.
>
> --On Thursday, March 28, 2002 3:40 PM -0800 Jim Hickstein <jxh at jxh.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Put VNC on in instead?
>




From arsen at certaintysolutions.com  Thu Mar 28 17:42:32 2002
From: arsen at certaintysolutions.com (Thomas J. Arseneault)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:42:32 -0800
Subject: Terminal services and Linux
In-Reply-To: <Pine.NEB.4.10.10203281849370.992-100000@corona.housebsd.org>
Message-ID: <000301c1d6c2$fe448f30$cf01a8c0@zapper>

But only one VNC session to a particular host own's the console all others
would be in read only mode. Terminal services make the host a true multiuser
system.

**********************************************
Tom Arseneault
System Admin.
Certainty Solutions, formerly Global Networking and Computing (GNAC).
"Certainty in an Uncertain World"
arsen at certaintysolutions.com
http://web.corp.rwc.crtsol.com
**********************************************

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-baylisa at baylisa.org [mailto:owner-baylisa at baylisa.org]On
> Behalf Of Sean Berry
> Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 4:50 PM
> To: Ulf Zimmermann
> Cc: Jim Hickstein; Daniel Curry; baylisa at baylisa.org
> Subject: Re: Terminal services and Linux
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, 28 Mar 2002, Ulf Zimmermann wrote:
> > On Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 03:40:35PM -0800, Jim Hickstein wrote:
> > > Put VNC on in instead?
> >
> > VNC is single user, Terminal Services allows multiple people
> > have thier Windows desktop and run applications.
>
> You can run multiple instances of Xvnc.  :)
> --
> Sean Berry works with many flavors of UNIX, but especially
> Solaris/SPARC and
> NetBSD.  His hobbies include graphics and raytracing.  He drinks
> coke mostly.
> His opinions are not necessarily those of his employers.
> 650/281-6610
>




From mkonety at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 28 17:44:32 2002
From: mkonety at yahoo.com (Madhu Konety)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:44:32 -0800
Subject: Help with Equipment
Message-ID: <EEENINPHGGLAMBMCAJFMCENFCCAA.mkonety@yahoo.com>

Hi,

We are a startup in the low burn mode and I am looking to buy some equipment
to get started.  Need a Sun Netra, an F5 load balancer and a couple linux
servers. Any help appreciated.

thanks,

Madhu Konety



_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com




From dcurry at cariocas.com  Thu Mar 28 18:27:47 2002
From: dcurry at cariocas.com (Daniel Curry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:27:47 -0800
Subject: Terminal services and Linux
Message-ID: <731E36372B5FD248AF790189519A32C180DF25@mailhub.cgtime.com>

web based interface to term services?  that would be excellent for my
needs!  how many users can it support while they are accessing Outlook
and possibly word or PowerPoint?

-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas J. Arseneault [mailto:arsen at certaintysolutions.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 4:14 PM
To: Jim Hickstein; baylisa at baylisa.org
Subject: RE: Terminal services and Linux


Comparing observed screen refresh rates between the two (on a litely
loaded
10Mb netowrk) I would opt for Terminal Services, but VNC is the easier
of
the two to get running on Linux. Was'nt there a Web based interface to
Terminal Services?

**********************************************
Tom Arseneault
System Admin.
Certainty Solutions, formerly Global Networking and Computing (GNAC).
"Certainty in an Uncertain World"
arsen at certaintysolutions.com
http://web.corp.rwc.crtsol.com
**********************************************

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-baylisa at baylisa.org [mailto:owner-baylisa at baylisa.org]On
> Behalf Of Jim Hickstein
> Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 4:05 PM
> To: baylisa at baylisa.org
> Subject: Re: Terminal services and Linux
>
>
> s/in/it.  Boy, I'm getting sloppy lately.
>
> --On Thursday, March 28, 2002 3:40 PM -0800 Jim Hickstein
<jxh at jxh.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Put VNC on in instead?
>




From benjy at feen.com  Thu Mar 28 18:56:48 2002
From: benjy at feen.com (Benjy Feen)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 18:56:48 -0800
Subject: rdesktop, VNC, tightvnc
Message-ID: <20020328185648.D4645@pianosa.catch22.org>

I've had great luck using rdesktop from my RH7.2 desktop to access
our red-headed stepsystems.  In a pinch I've been able to VNC into
a Windows box running the VNC server, then run the Terminal Services
client from there. This is a little icky, but those who dance with
the devil should get used to his breath.

As an aside, if you use VNC, you should check out TightVNC, which 
desuckulates VNC's bandwidth issues.

www.tightvnc.com
and rdesktop is available at
www.rdesktop.org

Love,
Benjy

--
Benjy Feen
benjy(AT)feen.com
http://www.monkeybagel.com


From claw at kanga.nu  Thu Mar 28 20:59:59 2002
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:59:59 -0800
Subject: Help with Equipment 
In-Reply-To: Message from "Madhu Konety" <mkonety@yahoo.com> 
   of "Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:44:32 PST." <EEENINPHGGLAMBMCAJFMCENFCCAA.mkonety@yahoo.com> 
References: <EEENINPHGGLAMBMCAJFMCENFCCAA.mkonety@yahoo.com> 
Message-ID: <1507.1017377999@kanga.nu>

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 17:44:32 -0800 
Madhu Konety <mkonety at yahoo.com> wrote:

> Hi, We are a startup in the low burn mode and I am looking to buy some
> equipment to get started.  Need a Sun Netra, an F5 load balancer and a
> couple linux servers. Any help appreciated.

There have been a couple (overpriced) Netras lately on Craigslist.  I'd
also recommend wandering over to WeirdStuff.  They occasionally see some
wander thru.

-- 
J C Lawrence                
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
claw at kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.


From dcurry at cariocas.com  Thu Mar 28 22:03:03 2002
From: dcurry at cariocas.com (Daniel Curry)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:03:03 -0800
Subject: motherboard needed
Message-ID: <731E36372B5FD248AF790189519A32C180DF29@mailhub.cgtime.com>

Hey all, I am in need of a Slot 1 motherboard to take a Celeron P3-400.
CHEAP!  I promised to build a machine for one of the neighbor kids.  his
birthday is next weekend.  Thanks.

Daniel


From dan_bethe at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 28 22:36:04 2002
From: dan_bethe at yahoo.com (Dan Bethe)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:36:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: motherboard needed
In-Reply-To: <731E36372B5FD248AF790189519A32C180DF29@mailhub.cgtime.com>
Message-ID: <20020329063604.11188.qmail@web11008.mail.yahoo.com>


--- Daniel Curry <dcurry at cariocas.com> wrote:
> Hey all, I am in need of a Slot 1 motherboard to take a Celeron P3-400.
> CHEAP!  I promised to build a machine for one of the neighbor kids.  his
> birthday is next weekend.  Thanks.

I don't know Weirdstuff's prices, but they have all kinds of weird stuff. 
They're in Sunnyvale.  Last I knew, there was a place in Sunnyvale on Lawrence
Expressway called Action Computers which had all kinds of stuff and was in a
strip mall with lots of related things.  Good luck!

=====
Ambassador Communication Services -=- http://ambcomm.com
   Managed Teleconferencing and Transcription Services

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/


From rob.riley at oracle.com  Thu Mar 28 22:58:00 2002
From: rob.riley at oracle.com (Rob Riley)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:58:00 -0800
Subject: Hunting for a home for wayward hardware
References: <20020328193233.O40234-100000@iguana.reptiles.org>
Message-ID: <3CA41078.85F3CA2D@oracle.com>

Hi Gwendolynn,
You might check with the Computer History Museum, which is located
at Moffett Field and is open to the public.

www.computerhistory.org or call 1-650-604-2714.

By the way, they have excellent guest lectures.  Last night they
had a dialog between Pierluigi Zappacosta, founder of Logitech and
chairman of Digital Persona and Doug Engelbart, a leader in the
development of the computer mouse, display editing, outline
processing, multiple remote online users of a networked processor,
hyperlinking and in-file object processing, multiple windows,
hypermedia, and context-sensitive help.

Regards,
-- 
Rob Riley, Senior Systems Administrator voice (USA): (650) 506-1435
Security Architecture, Oracle Corp.     fax (USA): (650) 506-7184



Gwendolynn ferch Elydyr wrote:
> 
> Through the moving process, we've discovered no less than _5_ T3 CSU/DSU
> Access Multiplexors in our apartment.
> 
> They're DL3100s, w/ HSSI - and I'd dearly like to see them go to somewhere
> better than the dump.
> 
> If anyone's interested, please email ASAP (so that you'll get them
> before the dump does).
> 
> If you have pointers to someone who might be interested in them, that
> wouldn't be a bad thing either.
> 
> The ecofreak in me twitches at the idea of just shipping them off to
> the dump - and the technoweenie thinks that you can always do _something
> with old hardware...
> 
> cheers!
> ==========================================================================
> "A cat spends her life conflicted between a deep, passionate and profound
> desire for fish and an equally deep, passionate and profound desire to
> avoid getting wet.  This is the defining metaphor of my life right now."
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From joebsd1 at yahoo.com  Thu Mar 28 23:33:16 2002
From: joebsd1 at yahoo.com (joe bsd)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 23:33:16 -0800 (PST)
Subject: motherboard needed
In-Reply-To: <20020329063604.11188.qmail@web11008.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020329073316.4589.qmail@web20103.mail.yahoo.com>

This place might have something like that:

http://www.softwareandstuff.com/

weirdstuff may have some webserver problems.
I couldn't reach their site when I tried.

weirdstuff is like a computer/electronics
junkyard.  They have been known
to haggle a little bit.  I've picked
up some old Mac hardware there.

http://www.weirdstuff.com/



--- Dan Bethe <dan_bethe at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> --- Daniel Curry <dcurry at cariocas.com> wrote:
> > Hey all, I am in need of a Slot 1 motherboard to take a Celeron
> P3-400.
> > CHEAP!  I promised to build a machine for one of the neighbor kids. 
> his
> > birthday is next weekend.  Thanks.
> 
> I don't know Weirdstuff's prices, but they have all kinds of weird
> stuff. 
> They're in Sunnyvale.  Last I knew, there was a place in Sunnyvale on
> Lawrence
> Expressway called Action Computers which had all kinds of stuff and was
> in a
> strip mall with lots of related things.  Good luck!
> 
> =====
> Ambassador Communication Services -=- http://ambcomm.com
>    Managed Teleconferencing and Transcription Services
> 
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
> http://greetings.yahoo.com/


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/


From claw at kanga.nu  Fri Mar 29 00:41:29 2002
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 00:41:29 -0800
Subject: motherboard needed 
In-Reply-To: Message from Dan Bethe <dan_bethe@yahoo.com> 
   of "Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:36:04 PST." <20020329063604.11188.qmail@web11008.mail.yahoo.com> 
References: <20020329063604.11188.qmail@web11008.mail.yahoo.com> 
Message-ID: <3904.1017391289@kanga.nu>

On Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:36:04 -0800 (PST) 
Dan Bethe <dan_bethe at yahoo.com> wrote:

> I don't know Weirdstuff's prices, but they have all kinds of weird
> stuff.  They're in Sunnyvale.

Weirdstuff are up on Mathilda right where it turns into Caribbean
(North end of Lawrence).

> Last I knew, there was a place in Sunnyvale on Lawrence Expressway
> called Action Computers which had all kinds of stuff and was in a
> strip mall with lots of related things.  Good luck!

Yup, right across the road from where Fry's used to be.  Pretty
exclusively x86 tho.  Then again there's also Halted just off Central.

-- 
J C Lawrence                
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
claw at kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.


From lanning at lanning.cc  Thu Mar 28 22:45:36 2002
From: lanning at lanning.cc (Robert Hajime Lanning)
Date: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 22:45:36 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Terminal services and Linux
In-Reply-To: <20020328165028.B4645@pianosa.catch22.org> from "Benjy Feen" at Mar 28, 2002 04:50:28 PM
Message-ID: <200203290645.g2T6jbg11634@lanning.cc>

You are looking for an ICA client, right?

On Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 03:04:49PM -0800, Daniel Curry wrote:
> Does anyone know of a way to access MS Terminal Services from a
> Linux/Unix workstation running X?
> 

-- 
END OF LINE.



From chuck+baylisa at snew.com  Fri Mar 29 10:05:58 2002
From: chuck+baylisa at snew.com (Chuck Yerkes)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:05:58 -0800
Subject: Help with Equipment
In-Reply-To: <EEENINPHGGLAMBMCAJFMCENFCCAA.mkonety@yahoo.com>; from mkonety@yahoo.com on Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 05:44:32PM -0800
References: <EEENINPHGGLAMBMCAJFMCENFCCAA.mkonety@yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020329100558.B32177@snew.com>

Quoting Madhu Konety (mkonety at yahoo.com):
> We are a startup in the low burn mode and I am looking to buy some equipment
> to get started.  Need a Sun Netra, an F5 load balancer and a couple linux
> servers. Any help appreciated.

If I may rephrase:
We're trying to save money, but we want a 1U Solaris box -
from one of the most over-priced manufacturers, a high end
load balancer designed for high end work, and some linux boxes.

Perhaps I didn't hear "we're looking for an EMC, cheap"
They just don't exist.


Well, I've built a number of Linux boxes for well < $400 -
decent MoBo, decent disk, extra fans and GOOD ram and GOOD
powersupplies (debugging cheap RAM and power is timeconsuming
and WILL cost far, far more than you tried to save).


Perhaps there is FUNCTIONALITY you seek, rather than specific
(expensive) product?  If you're bound to Sparc, then the X1
is adequate for what it is - an non-expandable 1U with a slow
CPU and expensive RAM.  Older Ultras can be had more cheaply
(300MHz or so).  Intel 1U and 2U's will give you more oomph
for the $$$.

Load balancing can be done by software until you have the funds
to by a dedicated turnkey system like the F5 or Local Director.

chuck


From chuck+baylisa at snew.com  Fri Mar 29 10:51:24 2002
From: chuck+baylisa at snew.com (Chuck Yerkes)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 10:51:24 -0800
Subject: Terminal services and Linux
In-Reply-To: <731E36372B5FD248AF790189519A32C1118F9E@mailhub.cgtime.com>; from dcurry@cariocas.com on Thu, Mar 28, 2002 at 03:04:49PM -0800
References: <731E36372B5FD248AF790189519A32C1118F9E@mailhub.cgtime.com>
Message-ID: <20020329105124.F32177@snew.com>

Quoting Daniel Curry (dcurry at cariocas.com):
> Does anyone know of a way to access MS Terminal Services from a
> Linux/Unix workstation running X?

VNC is often mentioned, but let's keep in mind that MS is now
moving towards a license that says that only Windows software
can be used to access Windows terminal servers.  So VNC may
become illegal for this.  (this might be an XP only issue -
older versions were likely ignorant of this "threat" to their
monopoly).

You don't really say what you need it for, but there are other choices.


Options?  Well, stop using MS software.  Evolution is a lovely
replacement for Outbreak^W OutLook, though it doesn't run the
virii of the week nearly as well :)

Or, replace Exchange with a nice IMAP and Calendar back end
and use a couple small workstations to serve 30,000 people.
Some folks can still keep using LookOut if they want and not
even know Exchange has left the building.

Mozilla is about to hit 1.0 and, with about 4 other browsers
I use, does not have the problems that Internet Explorer has.


The Office habit is hard to break.  We have a developer who
replied to word doc in Tex and sends a pointer to Tex software
that's available for free (roughly: "you seem to insist that
I spend hundreds of dollars to buy software for an OS that I
don't run, my reply is written for software that is free for
you")

I'm used to FrameMaker (way too $$$$ for Unix) and WordPerfect.
StarOffice is not terribly portable, but runs on Linux and is,
er, ok.  I can run PPT presentations just fine with it.  There
are other word processors available for Unix, Windows and Mac.

Excel is harder to match.  Most people use 5% of it's capabilities,
but insist that they still need functions that can run 4
dimensional quasar graphs.  I rarely see anyone doing things
that I didn't do with Quattro Pro in 1990.  We have one guy
who makes Excel dance and he needs it; the other people send
me half page price lists in 4MB spreadsheets.


On the other tack, MacOS X runs Office.  And Unix.  (and iCab,
Mozilla, Opera and others). If you have a fast enough Mac
(NetBSD screams on my Mac compared to the more functional OS X).


But mostly, if they insist on using Microsoft software, then
you should request extra boxes just to run Windows for your
folks.  And make sure they see the cost of running that - $300
for the OS, plus $400 for Office and 1/5 of a support person
for each box plus unexpected downtime, monthly security patches,
unexpected but regular virus attacks and reduced productivity
(unless you count as productive spending 4 hrs do make PPT
slides for a 20 minute presentation that would have worked
just as well with 20 minutes using a translucent and a Sharpie).


If the answer is Microsoft then the question was usually phrased wrong.

chuck


From hunt at frostypenguin.net  Fri Mar 29 11:01:09 2002
From: hunt at frostypenguin.net (Jeremy Hunt)
Date: 29 Mar 2002 11:01:09 -0800
Subject: Terminal services and Linux
In-Reply-To: <731E36372B5FD248AF790189519A32C1118F9E@mailhub.cgtime.com>
References: <731E36372B5FD248AF790189519A32C1118F9E@mailhub.cgtime.com>
Message-ID: <1017428474.22767.6.camel@jeremy-linux.brocade.com>

A few more things that you might want to look at:

http://www.thincomputinginc.com has something called Winconnect which I
tried last week and seems to work.

http://www.tarantella.com has a Web based Terminal Services client. I
haven't used that but I have done an entire Xsession to my windows PC
through my browser which worked well.

-Jeremy

On Thu, 2002-03-28 at 15:04, Daniel Curry wrote:
> Does anyone know of a way to access MS Terminal Services from a
> Linux/Unix workstation running X?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Daniel Curry




From jxh at jxh.com  Fri Mar 29 11:07:40 2002
From: jxh at jxh.com (Jim Hickstein)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:07:40 -0800
Subject: Terminal services and Linux
In-Reply-To: <200203290645.g2T6jbg11634@lanning.cc>
References: <200203290645.g2T6jbg11634@lanning.cc>
Message-ID: <45470000.1017428860@jxh.mirapoint.com>

> You are looking for an ICA client, right?

I think he wants an RDP (Remote Desktop Protocol?) client, which seems to 
replace ICA.

We have Citrix (something) running on a W2K box, and it listens for both 
ICA and RDP connections.  The stock MS W2K Terminal Service Client can talk 
to it, with RDP; the Citrix-branded client talks ICA to it.  (Personally, 
it will only let me in with RDP due to some bizarre licensing issue I don't 
understand and don't want to.)

I could us a Solaris/SPARC RDP client myself, though I'm able to run the TS 
Client from inside my SunPCI.  Baroque, but functional.


From dan_bethe at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 29 11:14:12 2002
From: dan_bethe at yahoo.com (Dan Bethe)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:14:12 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Help with Equipment
In-Reply-To: <20020329100558.B32177@snew.com>
Message-ID: <20020329191412.93760.qmail@web11004.mail.yahoo.com>

> Well, I've built a number of Linux boxes for well < $400 -
> decent MoBo, decent disk, extra fans and GOOD ram and GOOD
> powersupplies (debugging cheap RAM and power is timeconsuming
> and WILL cost far, far more than you tried to save).

http://sf.net/projects/va-ctcs

That's VA Linux's former QA system, now the de facto for Redhat, SGI, the Linux
kernel team, etc.  Check it out of CVS (instructions are there) and type
'./newburn' and come back in 12 to 24 hours to see if your system is production
quality.  Runs on intel-compatible Linux, ppc Linux, perhaps others.

> Load balancing can be done by software until you have the funds
> to by a dedicated turnkey system like the F5 or Local Director.

http://linuxvirtualserver.org

This has been production quality for years and is comparable to most of the
load balancers, clusterers, and failovers of any price.

=====
Ambassador Communication Services -=- http://ambcomm.com
   Managed Teleconferencing and Transcription Services

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/


From jxh at jxh.com  Fri Mar 29 11:18:08 2002
From: jxh at jxh.com (Jim Hickstein)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:18:08 -0800
Subject: Terminal services and Linux
In-Reply-To: <20020329105124.F32177@snew.com>
References: <731E36372B5FD248AF790189519A32C1118F9E@mailhub.cgtime.com>
 <20020329105124.F32177@snew.com>
Message-ID: <50010000.1017429487@jxh.mirapoint.com>

--On Friday, March 29, 2002 10:51:24 AM -0800 Chuck Yerkes 
<chuck+baylisa at snew.com> wrote:

[rant elided]

Hallelujia, brother!

I have my personal G4 Powerbook next to my SPARCstation here at work.  For 
what I need[1], MacOS X rocks.  XDarwin, 3-button USB mouse, Office 89:mac 
in Classic.

[1] To wit: a tool I can rely on, rather than a hobby to consume my time. 
I went through that phase, but I'm done now.


From jxh at jxh.com  Fri Mar 29 11:36:39 2002
From: jxh at jxh.com (Jim Hickstein)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 11:36:39 -0800
Subject: Terminal services and Linux
In-Reply-To: <50010000.1017429487@jxh.mirapoint.com>
References: <731E36372B5FD248AF790189519A32C1118F9E@mailhub.cgtime.com>
 <20020329105124.F32177@snew.com> <50010000.1017429487@jxh.mirapoint.com>
Message-ID: <72970000.1017430599@jxh.mirapoint.com>

Make that "98".  Bad day for typing.

--On Friday, March 29, 2002 11:18:08 AM -0800 Jim Hickstein <jxh at jxh.com> 
wrote:

> need[1], MacOS X rocks.  XDarwin, 3-button USB mouse, Office 89:mac in
> Classic.




From joebsd1 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 29 12:00:54 2002
From: joebsd1 at yahoo.com (joe bsd)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:00:54 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Terminal services and Linux
In-Reply-To: <1017428474.22767.6.camel@jeremy-linux.brocade.com>
Message-ID: <20020329200054.43592.qmail@web20109.mail.yahoo.com>

It is certainly great to have a list with so many experts
like baylisa at baylisa.org.

But on the Baylisa home page, it states the purpose of
this list as follows:

"This is the general mailing list for BayLISA activities."

Maybe that should be broadened a little bit or a technical
discussion list formed.  Maybe I'm only pointing this out
because of the way I got hammered by a few members for 
bringing up employment related issues on baylisa lists.

Just my two cents.

  Guy


--- Jeremy Hunt <hunt at frostypenguin.net> wrote:
> A few more things that you might want to look at:
> 
> http://www.thincomputinginc.com has something called Winconnect which I
> tried last week and seems to work.
> 
> http://www.tarantella.com has a Web based Terminal Services client. I
> haven't used that but I have done an entire Xsession to my windows PC
> through my browser which worked well.
> 
> -Jeremy
> 
> On Thu, 2002-03-28 at 15:04, Daniel Curry wrote:
> > Does anyone know of a way to access MS Terminal Services from a
> > Linux/Unix workstation running X?
> > 
> > Thanks
> > 
> > Daniel Curry
> 
> 


__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/


From david at catwhisker.org  Fri Mar 29 12:16:10 2002
From: david at catwhisker.org (David Wolfskill)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:16:10 -0800 (PST)
Subject: No subject
Message-ID: <200203292016.g2TKGAG98110@bunrab.catwhisker.org>

Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:13:37 -0800 (PST)
From: owner-baylisa at baylisa.org
Received: from lanning.cc ([63.166.8.14])
	by www.baylisa.org (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id g2TKDX301936
	for <baylisa at baylisa.org>; Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:13:33 -0800 (PST)
Received: (from lanning at localhost)
	by lanning.cc (8.11.0/8.11.0) id g2TKDW712234;
	Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:13:32 -0800
From: Robert Hajime Lanning <lanning at lanning.cc>
Message-Id: <200203292013.g2TKDW712234 at lanning.cc>
Subject: Re: Terminal services and Linux
To: laidoffland at yahoogroups.com
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:13:31 -0800 (PST)
Cc: baylisa at baylisa.org
In-Reply-To: <20020329200054.43592.qmail at web20109.mail.yahoo.com> from "joe bsd" at Mar 29, 2002 12:00:54 PM
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.5 PL3]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

You posted to the "-jobs" list without offering a job or
posting your resume.  This list is a discussion list.  The
"-jobs" list is not a discussion list.

---- As written by joe bsd:

> It is certainly great to have a list with so many experts
> like baylisa at baylisa.org.

> But on the Baylisa home page, it states the purpose of
> this list as follows:

> "This is the general mailing list for BayLISA activities."

> Maybe that should be broadened a little bit or a technical
> discussion list formed.  Maybe I'm only pointing this out
> because of the way I got hammered by a few members for 
> bringing up employment related issues on baylisa lists.

> Just my two cents.

>   Guy


> --- Jeremy Hunt <hunt at frostypenguin.net> wrote:
> > A few more things that you might want to look at:
> > 
> > http://www.thincomputinginc.com has something called Winconnect which I
> > tried last week and seems to work.
> > 
> > http://www.tarantella.com has a Web based Terminal Services client. I
> > haven't used that but I have done an entire Xsession to my windows PC
> > through my browser which worked well.
> > 
> > -Jeremy
> > 
> > On Thu, 2002-03-28 at 15:04, Daniel Curry wrote:
> > > Does anyone know of a way to access MS Terminal Services from a
> > > Linux/Unix workstation running X?
> > > 
> > > Thanks
> > > 
> > > Daniel Curry
> > 
> > 


> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
> http://greetings.yahoo.com/



-- 
END OF LINE.


david       (links to my resume at http://www.catwhisker.org/~david)
-- 
David H. Wolfskill				david at catwhisker.org
I believe it would be irresponsible (and thus, unethical) for me to advise,
recommend, or support the use of any product that is or depends on any
Microsoft product for any purpose other than personal amusement.


From dannyman at toldme.com  Fri Mar 29 12:23:35 2002
From: dannyman at toldme.com (Danny Howard)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:23:35 -0800
Subject: Terminal services and Linux
In-Reply-To: <20020329200054.43592.qmail@web20109.mail.yahoo.com>; from joebsd1@yahoo.com on Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 12:00:54PM -0800
References: <1017428474.22767.6.camel@jeremy-linux.brocade.com> <20020329200054.43592.qmail@web20109.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020329122334.F11019@pianosa.catch22.org>

On Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 12:00:54PM -0800, joe bsd wrote:
> It is certainly great to have a list with so many experts
> like baylisa at baylisa.org.
> 
> But on the Baylisa home page, it states the purpose of
> this list as follows:
> 
> "This is the general mailing list for BayLISA activities."
> 
> Maybe that should be broadened a little bit or a technical
> discussion list formed.  Maybe I'm only pointing this out
> because of the way I got hammered by a few members for 
> bringing up employment related issues on baylisa lists.
> 
> Just my two cents.

Uhmmm, yeah, might I offer "Me too?"

I don't filter this list because I like to receive reminder announcements
of meeting in my inbox.  Mailing lists chartered for technical,
sysadmin-related discussions go to their own respective folders.

So, taking a cue from Joe, could we either adhere to the existing
charter, amend the existing charter, and thus our respective mail
filters, or spin off a seperate list or two for jobs postings and shop
talk?

:)

-danny

-- 
http://dannyman.toldme.com/



From david at catwhisker.org  Fri Mar 29 12:29:35 2002
From: david at catwhisker.org (David Wolfskill)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:29:35 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Terminal services and Linux
In-Reply-To: <20020329200054.43592.qmail@web20109.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <200203292029.g2TKTZM98182@bunrab.catwhisker.org>

>Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 12:00:54 -0800 (PST)
>From: joe bsd <joebsd1 at yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: laidoffland at yahoogroups.com
>To: baylisa at baylisa.org

[Cc:ing baylisa at baylisa.org despite the above request to not do so.  dhw]

>It is certainly great to have a list with so many experts
>like baylisa at baylisa.org.

>But on the Baylisa home page, it states the purpose of
>this list as follows:

>"This is the general mailing list for BayLISA activities."

>Maybe that should be broadened a little bit or a technical
>discussion list formed.  Maybe I'm only pointing this out
>because of the way I got hammered by a few members for 
>bringing up employment related issues on baylisa lists.

The home page is intended to be broadly indicative, vs. definitive.

For the definitive word(s) on the purpose of a list, ask majordomo for
the "info" file for the list.

And you got "hammered" for bringing up issues that were perceived as
off-topic for the list to which you posted, which was baylisa-jobs, not
baylisa.  (Well, some folks also considered the content unwelcome for
other reasons.)

>Just my two cents.

And folks who are sufficiently interested in BayLISA's infrastructure
are very welcome to subscribe and post to services-tf at baylisa.org.
(That is not intended to exclude anyone; rather, it is a recognition
that there exists a sizable proprtion of BayLISA's membership, some
of whom may well subscribe to the baylisa list, for which this
message is more "noise" than "signal.")

But commenting about the lack of a list with a certain focus, when
one has repeatedly demonstrated unwillingness to be responsible for
such a list, strikes me as somewhere between disingenuous and
hypocritical.

Cheers (anyway),
david       (links to my resume at http://www.catwhisker.org/~david)
-- 
David H. Wolfskill				david at catwhisker.org
I believe it would be irresponsible (and thus, unethical) for me to advise,
recommend, or support the use of any product that is or depends on any
Microsoft product for any purpose other than personal amusement.


From greg at kulosa.org  Fri Mar 29 13:04:15 2002
From: greg at kulosa.org (Greg Kulosa)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:04:15 -0800
Subject: Terminal services and Linux
In-Reply-To: <20020329200054.43592.qmail@web20109.mail.yahoo.com>; from joebsd1@yahoo.com on Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 12:00:54PM -0800
References: <1017428474.22767.6.camel@jeremy-linux.brocade.com> <20020329200054.43592.qmail@web20109.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020329130415.A9950@jaxom.dhcp.kulosa.org>




> But on the Baylisa home page, it states the purpose of
> this list as follows:
> 
> "This is the general mailing list for BayLISA activities."

Yes, and all these other people have been using this list as it was
meant, and how it has always been used, for the 7-8 years that I have
been a member.

Personaly, I love that there is a place I can get information and advice
from fellow SA's.

If you don't think that talking about technical stuff is a "BayLISA
activity", then you missed the whole point of the organization.


BTW, I have not been posting much lately, but I am not a new-comer here.
I was on the board of directors for 2 years as the Arch (Secretary),
and ran the MBONE transmission of meetings for 2 years before that.


> Maybe that should be broadened a little bit or a technical
> discussion list formed.  Maybe I'm only pointing this out
> because of the way I got hammered by a few members for 
> bringing up employment related issues on baylisa lists.

If you behaved like this at your last employer, no wonder you are
unemployed.


-- 
Greg A. Kulosa          | "The avalanche has already started, it is too
Systems Administrator   |  late for the pebbles to vote." - Ambassador Kosh
Independent Consultant  |___________________________________________________
greg at kulosa.org          


From joebsd1 at yahoo.com  Fri Mar 29 13:20:01 2002
From: joebsd1 at yahoo.com (joe bsd)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 13:20:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: lists
Message-ID: <20020329212001.19647.qmail@web20107.mail.yahoo.com>

I just thought "Technical discussions" might be in the list description
like these guys do it.

http://www.netbsd.org/MailingLists/#tech-install

Until I saw some of the recent traffic on the list, I was
afraid to ask technical questions on the baylisa list.
Have you guys ever considered creating a few
lists for tech discussions?:
Linux
Windows
Solaris
Mixed Platform
....

Sorry, I didn't realize that my "reply to:" was set 
incorrectly in the earlier message.

About the offer for the "unmentionable employment issues" email
list,  I think it might do more harm then good.  Employers
might want to steer clear of Bay Lisa members if they
saw a list like that on the baylisa site.


  Guy




__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/


From dannyman at toldme.com  Fri Mar 29 14:47:20 2002
From: dannyman at toldme.com (Danny Howard)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:47:20 -0800
Subject: lists
In-Reply-To: <20020329212001.19647.qmail@web20107.mail.yahoo.com>; from joebsd1@yahoo.com on Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 01:20:01PM -0800
References: <20020329212001.19647.qmail@web20107.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020329144719.H11019@pianosa.catch22.org>

On Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 01:20:01PM -0800, joe bsd wrote:
> Have you guys ever considered creating a few
> lists for tech discussions?:
> Linux
> Windows
> Solaris
> Mixed Platform

There are a few hundred mailing lists for all of these technologies,
there is about ZERO reason why you'd need to duplicate this stuff,
unless, say, BayLISA has SIGs with their own mailing lists devoted to
specific black arts.  (I have never made a meeting, sorry. :)

The advantage to technical discussion among BayLISA members is that you
know these people, to some degree, and they are local professionals.
You can expect a certain level of quality on this list.

> About the offer for the "unmentionable employment issues" email list,
> I think it might do more harm then good.  Employers might want to
> steer clear of Bay Lisa members if they saw a list like that on the
> baylisa site.

One thing that SAs tend to notice, either from their vast experience
with networked culture, or from experience maintaining e-mail and news
services, is that employment solicitation easily leads to lots of
traffic, and potential abuse.  Nobody on this list should be surprised
that employment issues may be inappropriate to this forum.

As for your earlier complaints about employers abusing H1B Visas, I
humbly suggest that if you can document specific abuses, and then
determine how the law could be reformed to curtail these abuses, that
you may find members on this list willing to respond to your
well-reasoned, clearly-stated call-to-action with a signature on a
petition, a message to a conressional representative, or the like.
Heck, you may even be able to find like-minded folks who can lend a hand
with all the research and grunt-work that goes in to making our
Democracy a better place.

Blind rants, as we've all observed, tend to just annoy people.  And this
crowd, more than most, tends to grok their filtering software.  I'd
tread lightly lest people start discarding your messages before they
ever even see them.

-danny

-- 
http://dannyman.toldme.com/



From chuck+baylisa at snew.com  Fri Mar 29 16:31:20 2002
From: chuck+baylisa at snew.com (Chuck Yerkes)
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 16:31:20 -0800
Subject: lists
In-Reply-To: <20020329212001.19647.qmail@web20107.mail.yahoo.com>; from joebsd1@yahoo.com on Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 01:20:01PM -0800
References: <20020329212001.19647.qmail@web20107.mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <20020329163120.B8840@snew.com>

Quoting joe bsd (joebsd1 at yahoo.com):
> Have you guys ever considered creating a few lists for tech discussions?:
> Linux      - Bazillions of lists
> Windows    - Don't you have to be Certified to even talk about it?
> Solaris    - Sun Managers.  It's great.
> Mixed Platform

I like going to Sun users for Sun information.  BayLISA people
often can point me to Bay Area resources (like Wierd Stuff, a
geek Mecca which I'd discovered by accident.  Only the fact
that we went in a small car prevented my girlfriend from having
to suffer some very large and goofy equipment :)


> Sorry, I didn't realize that my "reply to:" was set 
> incorrectly in the earlier message.
We all make mistakes.
Except me.  I didn't mean to say I make mistakes.  I take it back.

>   Guy

Guy or Joe?  I get confused by pseudonyms.  And this BSD name?
What's the ethnicity of that?


From dannyman at toldme.com  Sat Mar 30 00:20:51 2002
From: dannyman at toldme.com (Danny Howard)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 00:20:51 -0800
Subject: lists
In-Reply-To: <20020329163120.B8840@snew.com>; from chuck+baylisa@snew.com on Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 04:31:20PM -0800
References: <20020329212001.19647.qmail@web20107.mail.yahoo.com> <20020329163120.B8840@snew.com>
Message-ID: <20020330002051.L11019@pianosa.catch22.org>

On Fri, Mar 29, 2002 at 04:31:20PM -0800, Chuck Yerkes wrote:
> Quoting joe bsd (joebsd1 at yahoo.com):
> > Have you guys ever considered creating a few lists for tech discussions?:
> > Linux      - Bazillions of lists
> > Windows    - Don't you have to be Certified to even talk about it?
> > Solaris    - Sun Managers.  It's great.
> > Mixed Platform
> 
> I like going to Sun users for Sun information.  BayLISA people often
> can point me to Bay Area resources (like Wierd Stuff, a geek Mecca
> which I'd discovered by accident.  Only the fact that we went in a
> small car prevented my girlfriend from having to suffer some very
> large and goofy equipment :)

Can I get some bonus points?

http://yourmom.toldme.com/pix/2001/0206/IMG_0218.JPG

Taken in the parking lot of that store in Sunnyvale that sells
inexpensive used equipment on the cheap.  You know, next to the Subway?
I forget the name, but we crammed two 19" ViewSonic monitors, with
Motorolla property tags, and a full tower case and other goodies in to
my sub-compact hybrid car for the drive back to Mountain View.  The one
monitor just barely fit under the hatchback, and the other sat in my
friend's lap.  (Hey, I've seen Benjy post to this list! :)

ObTopic: Oh, yeah, what's that store called?

-danny

-- 
http://dannyman.toldme.com/



From star at betelgeuse.starshine.org  Sat Mar 30 10:07:24 2002
From: star at betelgeuse.starshine.org (Heather)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:07:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: lists
In-Reply-To: <20020329212001.19647.qmail@web20107.mail.yahoo.com> from joe bsd
 at "Mar 29, 2002 01:20:01 pm"
Message-ID: <200203301807.g2UI7Oa13864@betelgeuse.starshine.org>

> I just thought "Technical discussions" might be in the list description
> like these guys do it.
> 
> http://www.netbsd.org/MailingLists/#tech-install
> 
> Until I saw some of the recent traffic on the list, I was
> afraid to ask technical questions on the baylisa list.
> Have you guys ever considered creating a few
> lists for tech discussions?:
> Linux
> Windows
> Solaris
> Mixed Platform

I think having us all mix up our issues in the same place is good, not 
bad.  If the matter affects large installations, any of us might be able
to answer, even if your platform and ours aren't the same, and even if
the question isn't *about* mixing platforms.  

My opinion only, yours may vary.  

-* Heather Stern * star at starshine.org * Starshine Technical Services *-


From claw at kanga.nu  Sat Mar 30 10:30:18 2002
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 10:30:18 -0800
Subject: lists 
In-Reply-To: Message from Danny Howard <dannyman@toldme.com> 
   of "Sat, 30 Mar 2002 00:20:51 PST." <20020330002051.L11019@pianosa.catch22.org> 
References: <20020329212001.19647.qmail@web20107.mail.yahoo.com> <20020329163120.B8840@snew.com>  <20020330002051.L11019@pianosa.catch22.org> 
Message-ID: <25570.1017513018@kanga.nu>

> Taken in the parking lot of that store in Sunnyvale that sells
> inexpensive used equipment on the cheap.  You know, next to the
> Subway?  

Action Computer -- They're on Lawrence, across the road from where Fry's
used to be, two doors down from Disk Drive Depot.

-- 
J C Lawrence                
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
claw at kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.


From star at betelgeuse.starshine.org  Sat Mar 30 11:29:44 2002
From: star at betelgeuse.starshine.org (Heather)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:29:44 -0800 (PST)
Subject: nature of the list baylisa@baylisa.org
In-Reply-To: <200203292016.g2TKGAG98110@bunrab.catwhisker.org> from David Wolfskill
 at "Mar 29, 2002 12:16:10 pm"
Message-ID: <200203301929.g2UJTiV14058@betelgeuse.starshine.org>

> ---- As written by joe bsd:
> 
> > It is certainly great to have a list with so many experts
> > like baylisa at baylisa.org.

Aw shux.

> > But on the Baylisa home page, it states the purpose of
> > this list as follows:
> > "This is the general mailing list for BayLISA activities."
> 
> > Maybe that should be broadened a little bit

How could "general mailing list" possibly be broadened further?
No.  It should not.

It should be focused tighter than that, thus 

::: "...for BayLISA activities."

BayLISA = large installation sysadmins.  Thus one can assume that
their normal activities will be technical and involve something
you might find lying around the server room :)  They may actually
involve our local area rather than (sys|net)admin folks globally.  

> > or a technical
> > discussion list formed. 

Let me get this straight, you're trying to claim that questions about
reaching a terminal server of one OS type from another OS is *off* topic 
here?  !?  What are you smoking, please check the netadmin general's
warning on the side of the package, and keep it away from my CSU/DSU.

If you mean a "specific topic" discussion list - scads of them already
exist, to name a few minor examples: NANOG, linux-kernel, bugtraq ...

If you mean a "just talk tech" - err, then what do you expect to hear
about on the main list? (When the system engineer wants egg fu yung because
"its down, it's hung" where do *you* go after 10 pm?  I know a good chinese
place on DeAnza...) We do have a -announce list, for people who only want 
to hear announcements and not discussions.

> > Maybe I'm only pointing this out
> > because of the way I got hammered by a few members for 
> > bringing up employment related issues on baylisa lists.

Hmm, lemme see, first you posted to baylisa-jobs, then
David Wolfskill, our postmaster, said:
> You posted to the "-jobs" list without offering a job or
> posting your resume.  This list is a discussion list.  The
> "-jobs" list is not a discussion list.

... so you were off-topic there at baylisa-jobs;

On the main list, you posted your grousing, but were so verbose that
to this moment I remain mystified what solution you suggest for what 
you view as a problem.  Great, you've filed a bug report that a certain
government behavior sucks, and that it affects you, a sysadmin type,
and some others like you heavily.  The QA rep inside me wants to try
to narrow your description into the "I am aggrieved" part and the "how
it can be fixed" -> "enhancement request" part - but the busy admin of 
me had no time to read it all, and filed it firmly in "political".  If 
the solution exists, it's not "sysadminly" in nature.  Thus more than
an awareness-level of talking about it drifts off-topic... in my noted
as not humble opinion.  Find a Bay Area activism list.  If it's a good
cause, you should be able to get some supporters there, maybe even some
who know about squishy matters like political reform.  

When you stir the fires looking for a spark of activism, DO remember to
wear your asbestos undies.  You will need them.  And don't be surprised
if you get killfiled by a few people. "I got hammered."  What, you expected
no replies?

I have news for you but there are many government behaviors that suck
for sysadmins.  Check the back tapes library for a few examples.  SSSCA
still awaits it chance to cause instantaneous bit rot in our hard disks
of the future.  Make sure to write down your snooping policies and your
get-rid-of-old-email policies lest you be subpoenaed for things you don't
have and then jailed for things you do that are "normal" in a sysadmin's
day.

<plug>Let the Board know if you want to borrow a tape of a past meeting
so we can bring it to your next meeting for you.  Remember that only 
BayLISA members can borrow tapes.</plug>

> > Just my two cents.
> 
> >   Guy

Compared to these I see your H1-B matter as one amongst the rest of these
helpdesk tickets categorized "trouble getting a job".  For the actual 
*getting* of a job, follow the rules on baylisa-jobs and see what you can 
find.  

I think that remote access matters are far closer to "on topic" - matters
that affect the Big Server Room - than job woes are, even highly political
ones in the technical fields.  On the matter of specialization of lists 
I'm sure there are activism newsgroups and mailing lists you *should* bring
this up to, which already exist, but aren't here.

Good luck in your quest.  My quest of the moment is to find enough hours
in the day to finish my main workstation upgrade while I have a project on
deadline.  Luckily the results are that thousands of people get lots of cool
techie tips for dealing with their Linux sysadminly matters.  Well okay,
some programmerish and end-user matters too.  But I'ts my job to keep what
gets pubbed there... on topic.

-* Heather Stern * star at starshine.org * Starshine Technical Services *-
	Arch (secretary) of BayLISA, but just speaking for me
	Hat of the day: Linux Gazette Technical Editor, linuxgazette.com


From jgreely at corp.webtv.net  Sat Mar 30 11:57:24 2002
From: jgreely at corp.webtv.net (J Greely)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:57:24 -0800 (PST)
Subject: nature of the list baylisa@baylisa.org
In-Reply-To: <200203301929.g2UJTiV14058@betelgeuse.starshine.org>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0203301153130.27192-100000@hotdhog.artemis.com>

On Sat, 30 Mar 2002, Heather wrote:
>Let me get this straight, you're trying to claim that questions about
>reaching a terminal server of one OS type from another OS is *off* topic
>here?

If I wanted to be part of a high-volume mailing list, I would have
subscribed to one. I find general "hey guys, let's chat about terminal
servers" as off-topic as "who wants to join the Ruckus Society and
learn how to commit property crimes?".

-j




From strata at virtual.net  Sat Mar 30 12:23:54 2002
From: strata at virtual.net (Strata Rose Chalup)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 12:23:54 -0800
Subject: nature of the list baylisa@baylisa.org
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0203301153130.27192-100000@hotdhog.artemis.com>
Message-ID: <3CA61EDA.3743A68F@virtual.net>


One can always join baylisa-announce and unsub from baylisa if occasional 
volume blips are that distressing.  Much ado about nothing.  

SRC

J Greely wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 30 Mar 2002, Heather wrote:
> >Let me get this straight, you're trying to claim that questions about
> >reaching a terminal server of one OS type from another OS is *off* topic
> >here?
> 
> If I wanted to be part of a high-volume mailing list, I would have
> subscribed to one. I find general "hey guys, let's chat about terminal
> servers" as off-topic as "who wants to join the Ruckus Society and
> learn how to commit property crimes?".
> 
> -j

-- 
========================================================================
Strata Rose Chalup [KF6NBZ]                      strata "@" virtual.net
VirtualNet Consulting                            http://www.virtual.net/
 ** Project Management & Architecture for ISP/ASP Systems Integration **
=========================================================================



From dannyman at toldme.com  Sat Mar 30 12:32:33 2002
From: dannyman at toldme.com (Danny Howard)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 12:32:33 -0800
Subject: baylisa versus baylisa-announce: FIGHT!
In-Reply-To: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0203301153130.27192-100000@hotdhog.artemis.com>; from jgreely@corp.webtv.net on Sat, Mar 30, 2002 at 11:57:24AM -0800
References: <200203301929.g2UJTiV14058@betelgeuse.starshine.org> <Pine.GSO.4.33.0203301153130.27192-100000@hotdhog.artemis.com>
Message-ID: <20020330123233.P11019@pianosa.catch22.org>

On Sat, Mar 30, 2002 at 11:57:24AM -0800, J Greely wrote:
> On Sat, 30 Mar 2002, Heather wrote:
> >Let me get this straight, you're trying to claim that questions about
> >reaching a terminal server of one OS type from another OS is *off*
> >topic here?
> 
> If I wanted to be part of a high-volume mailing list, I would have
> subscribed to one. I find general "hey guys, let's chat about terminal
> servers" as off-topic as "who wants to join the Ruckus Society and
> learn how to commit property crimes?".

Heather pointed out that there is an -announce list, which I myself was
unaware of.  I'll maybe check that out if the volume here starts to
annoy me.  That seems like a good philosophy to follow, yes?

-- 
http://dannyman.toldme.com/



From claw at kanga.nu  Sat Mar 30 12:49:29 2002
From: claw at kanga.nu (J C Lawrence)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 12:49:29 -0800
Subject: nature of the list baylisa@baylisa.org 
In-Reply-To: Message from J Greely <jgreely@corp.webtv.net> 
   of "Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:57:24 PST." <Pine.GSO.4.33.0203301153130.27192-100000@hotdhog.artemis.com> 
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0203301153130.27192-100000@hotdhog.artemis.com> 
Message-ID: <27458.1017521369@kanga.nu>

On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:57:24 -0800 (PST) 
J Greely <J> wrote:

> If I wanted to be part of a high-volume mailing list....

Describing this as a "high-volume mailing list" would be a stretch at
the very best of times.  There are occasional (few times a year) bursts
of traffic at a rate of more than 5 a day, with the rest of the year
averaging not much over one per month.  Hardly a hotbed of wire sizzling
bandwidth overflow.

-- 
J C Lawrence                
---------(*)                Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas. 
claw at kanga.nu               He lived as a devil, eh?		  
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/  Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.


From joebsd1 at yahoo.com  Sat Mar 30 13:51:26 2002
From: joebsd1 at yahoo.com (joe bsd)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 13:51:26 -0800 (PST)
Subject: lists
In-Reply-To: <20020329163120.B8840@snew.com>
Message-ID: <20020330215126.41461.qmail@web20102.mail.yahoo.com>

Hello all,

If anyone else thinks there is a need, I could take
ownership of list devoted to Windows technical discussions.
Remember, this is JUST a suggestion.  There is no need to be
insulting about it.

I'm starting to learn about Windows servers and products.
I could foresee a lot of questions coming up and would like
to have a local place to post questions.  I didn't want
to start posting a lot of questions to the baylisa list
and then get notified that I'm hogging the list bandwidth
with stupid Windows questions.

And I think we all need to chill out a little bit.  I am sorry
about previous posts about other issues.  I stopped posting
about that.  If anyone else is interested in those issues they
know where to find me now.

> > Sorry, I didn't realize that my "reply to:" was set 
> > incorrectly in the earlier message.
> We all make mistakes.
> Except me.  I didn't mean to say I make mistakes.  I take it back.
> 
> >   Guy
> 
> Guy or Joe?  I get confused by pseudonyms.  And this BSD name?
> What's the ethnicity of that?

It's Guy, but you can call me Joe.  As for the BSD, I think
that's Polish, originally BSD-ski, but I'm not sure.

--Guy






__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Greetings - send holiday greetings for Easter, Passover
http://greetings.yahoo.com/


From star at betelgeuse.starshine.org  Sat Mar 30 15:42:18 2002
From: star at betelgeuse.starshine.org (Heather)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 15:42:18 -0800 (PST)
Subject: nature of the list baylisa@baylisa.org
In-Reply-To: <27458.1017521369@kanga.nu> from J C Lawrence at "Mar 30, 2002 12:49:29
 pm"
Message-ID: <200203302342.g2UNgIv15113@betelgeuse.starshine.org>

> On Sat, 30 Mar 2002 11:57:24 -0800 (PST) 
> J Greely <J> wrote:
> > If I wanted to be part of a high-volume mailing list....

JC wrote:
> Describing this as a "high-volume mailing list" would be a stretch at
> the very best of times.  There are occasional (few times a year) bursts
> of traffic at a rate of more than 5 a day, with the rest of the year
> averaging not much over one per month.  Hardly a hotbed of wire sizzling
> bandwidth overflow.

I have learned, in all my years of postmastering, that one man's "Hmm, kinda
low volume", is another's "hello?  is there anybody on here at all?" and yet
another's "hey I thought you said LOW volume".

Likewise the papa/mama/baby bear problem++ applies to people's enjoyment of
various topics.  (++ too hot, too cold, just right)

General lists get bursty sometimes, we all get to live with it.  Just as true
if the normal traffic totalled tens, hundreds, or well over a thousand every
month.  I just don't think there's enough of us aboard this list to push
things to that upper category.

When it comes to handling burst mail, procmail's a nice pal to have around.
So's the D key when you decide a thread is boring.  So folks, if you change
the topic, change the subject, ok?  Thanks.

-* Heather Stern * star at starshine.org * Starshine Technical Services *-


From star at betelgeuse.starshine.org  Sat Mar 30 16:06:01 2002
From: star at betelgeuse.starshine.org (Heather)
Date: Sat, 30 Mar 2002 16:06:01 -0800 (PST)
Subject: Resources worth our webspace?
Message-ID: <200203310006.g2V061m15178@betelgeuse.starshine.org>


  If anybody would like to spearhead gathering the names and contact-URLs
  of the lists we as sysadmins use most,  I and the other board members 
  can easily turn it into a Resources page, or one of several, on the
  BayLISA website.

  The same can be done for a list of books we all keep relatively handy
  at our desks;  some raw attempts have been made that direction in the
  past, but just didn't get enough steam yet to get turned into a page.
  Maybe someone was afraid they'd look like a walking advertisement for
  a certain publisher noted for its woodcuts ;>

  For each reference, a sentence or two about why it's useful would also
  help.  Most of the contact-URLs for lists I've seen are either the raw
  sub.unsub interface, or they are, shall we say, rather wordy.

For my own part the lists-resource would be kicked off with

  SANS Security update
	sans.org
	You can choose which platforms and foci to get security updates
	about, plus it's fairly timely and concise, with URLs to further
	explain the matters that are worth extra study.

  debian-laptops
	lists.debian.org
	More specific to laptops, thus covers matters of odd hardware, 
	and a lot less volume and higher clue-ratio than debian-users.
	Also web-searchable :)

Dunno if I have the remaining cycles to be its core volunteer (amend,
I know for sure I don't this weekend), but if there is enough content
among the batch of us, we can turn it into a couple of URLs we can drop
people into, instead of a discussion-fest when other lists apply best.
I think that'd be a worthy thing for BayLISA to offer out-of-area sysads
to look at, too.

Thoughts?

-* Heather Stern * star at starshine.org * Starshine Technical Services *-



From jgreely at corp.webtv.net  Sun Mar 31 10:41:06 2002
From: jgreely at corp.webtv.net (J Greely)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 10:41:06 -0800 (PST)
Subject: nature of the list baylisa@baylisa.org
In-Reply-To: <3CA61EDA.3743A68F@virtual.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0203311037570.4154-100000@hotdhog.artemis.com>

On Sat, 30 Mar 2002, Strata Rose Chalup wrote:
>One can always join baylisa-announce and unsub from baylisa if occasional
>volume blips are that distressing.

Well, you see, based on the nine years or so I've been on this mailing
list, I've always believed this *was* the announce list. It's only
recently that people seem to have decided to frequently use it for
general Q&A, irrelevant spam, and general sysadmin chattiness.

>Much ado about nothing.

Which is why I didn't think it belonged on this list...

-j




From strata at virtual.net  Sun Mar 31 12:58:56 2002
From: strata at virtual.net (Strata Rose Chalup)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 12:58:56 -0800
Subject: nature of the list baylisa@baylisa.org
References: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0203311037570.4154-100000@hotdhog.artemis.com>
Message-ID: <3CA7788F.1F4CEA1F@virtual.net>


Come on out from under your rock and join the party-- haven't seen
you at a meeting for many years!

J Greely wrote:
> Well, you see, based on the nine years or so I've been on this mailing
> list, I've always believed this *was* the announce list.

cheers,
Strata 

-- 
========================================================================
Strata Rose Chalup [KF6NBZ]                      strata "@" virtual.net
VirtualNet Consulting                            http://www.virtual.net/
 ** Project Management & Architecture for ISP/ASP Systems Integration **
=========================================================================


From jgreely at corp.webtv.net  Sun Mar 31 18:29:04 2002
From: jgreely at corp.webtv.net (J Greely)
Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 18:29:04 -0800 (PST)
Subject: nature of the list baylisa@baylisa.org
In-Reply-To: <3CA7788F.1F4CEA1F@virtual.net>
Message-ID: <Pine.GSO.4.33.0203311825260.25133-100000@hotdhog.artemis.com>

On Sun, 31 Mar 2002, Strata Rose Chalup wrote:
>Come on out from under your rock and join the party-- haven't seen
>you at a meeting for many years!

Well, my focus over the past few years has been a bit different
(making the talks less directly interesting), and my most recent
excuse is that I now live seventy miles from Mountain View and mostly
telecommute. The upcoming Usenix is a short drive from my place,
though, so I'll definitely be there.

-j