My last plea,

Sat Apr 13 03:31:40 PDT 2002

Thanks for your belated reply,

This may be an old thread, but I'm still out there.

I'm not happy with what I see of the education system
either.  It seems that they are so concerned with making
everyone feel good, they can hardly agree on the use
of standardized tests.  In some countries the kids are
competing in middle school to see who gets to go the
good high school.  In South Korea the high school seniors
stay at the school until 10:30 PM studying for the college
entrance exam.  

Here in the US, colleges can waive test scores and admit some people just
to make sure they get the right quotas of "minorities".  I know some
people think that is fair.  I don't share that view.

About the H-1B visa program; What about the average guy who still
would be working if it weren't for the H-1B program.  Shouldn't he
fight to protect his job.  Nobody else is going to do it for him.
We all want to live and support our families.

What about the expert who could have commanded a high salary if
there were no H-1B visa program?  But, now because the company
can hire experts from all over the world he is only worth 75% of
what he could get in a tight market.  This is what happens when
immigration laws can control the supply of labor.  It shouldn't be
surprising that people are upset.

Out of control immigration will not help this country in
the long run.  

I collected some information and put it on line.
Read it at your own risk:

http://www.sunclassaction.com

It's a work in progress.

--Guy

--- Marc MERLIN <baylisa-local at merlins.org> wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 27, 2002 at 02:58:59PM -0800, joe bsd wrote:
> > I have been to Sun Microystems and looked at box after box full
> > of H1-B visa applications. So many, I couldn't count them all.  And
> > that was just for 2001, a recession year.   Some of the LCA's were
> > for my exact job and probably yours, too.  I looked at all those
> > boxes of LCA's and thought about the thousands of workers that Sun
> > laid off in 2001.  I thought about the thousands of qualified
> > American workers looking for work.  It made me sick.
> 
> I  know this  is  a  rather old  thread,  but since  I  just  spent 3 
> weeks
> interviewing for  sysadmin candidates in  my company, I'd say  the
> following
> thing  (and I'll  disclose  that I'm  a former  H1-B  holder, now 
> permanent
> resident)
>  
> H1-B workers who aren't top notch clearly should not be taken over
> Americans
> right now. While  it sucks for  them, if they  lose their current  job,
> they
> should go home.
> 
> Now, if they are top notch, then it's not the same.
> While they are many  people who are looking for a job  in the sysadmin
> field
> right now, I'm sorry to say that many of them plain suck. They actually
> also
> sucked when jobs were plentiful, but companies were so desparate for
> bodies,
> that they did get jobs.
> Now, it's different, jobs ain't plentiful  anymore, and if you were not
> that
> good to start with, you're probably toast
> What has  made me sick were  the complete cluebies that  got important,
> high
> paying jobs, and  got away with it. I'm quite happy  that things have
> become
> more sane again.
> 
> I  do realize  however that  in the  process, some  very skilled  people
> are
> without jobs,  especially in specialized  fields that just don't 
> require as
> many people anymore, but  for the most part, the skilled  people I knew
> have
> found other jobs with very few exceptions.
> 
> So yes, if  companies get away with firing US  employees, and replacing
> them
> with H1-B  holders of similar  or lesser skill,  this ain't right  (with
> the
> exception of  cases where  the people fired  were getting  paid
> ridiculously
> high salaries), but  if companies are taking advantage of  the job
> market to
> replace some  of their employees with  ones that have a  better skillset
> and
> may have  more reasonable salary  demands too,  it's life, whether  the
> said
> replacement employees are H1-B workers or not.
> 
> I'll  maintain  that  for the  most  part,  it's  still  hard to  find 
> good
> people. You should see the losers I  had to interview, with 10 page
> resumes,
> and senior in this or that, when they really knew Jack...
> (only 4 out of the 15 people interviewed were actually worth talking to,
> and
> that was for a junior and a senior position)
> 
> > I'm NOT trying to start a racist movement.  I have had responses from
> > people who are themselves recent immigrants and former H1-B's and
> > they agree with me 100%.  If it were really true(And it's not) that
> > we can't find enough American workers for some of our best jobs, in a
> > nation of 300,000,000, is the H1-B a real solution?  The real
> > solution should be education 
> 
> That's what people keep  saying, but in the meantime, I'm  sorry to tell
> you
> that the education system in this country is abysmal. Companies weren't
> only
> picking H1-B  workers because  they were  cheaper (I can  assure you 
> that I
> wasn't cheaper), but because many of them were more skilled.
> H1-B  holders for  the most  part aren't  smarter than  Americans, but 
> they
> studied a  hell of a lot  harder in school, and  had the chance of 
> going to
> schools that were more challenging and set the bar a lot higher.
> I've  seen many  smart Americans  being severely  held back  in school 
> here
> because  of the  general lowered  expectations and  setting the  bar at 
> the
> lowest common denominator.
> If you want to  be educated here, you not only have to  be smart, but
> have a
> lot of initiative to study on your own and/or get yourself in one of the
> few
> good schools that this country does have, and hope that money doesn't
> get in
> the way.
> In the meantime, California still ranks  48th for the quality of its
> schools
> in this country, doesn't it? (I might be off by a couple of spots).
> Isn't this ironic?
> 
> > and training. 
> 
> Sometimes,  but people  who  ain't  that bright  and  don't  have that 
> much
> initiative to  start with  can be  made a  bit more  useful, but  will
> never
> become as  useful as the people  who are smarter, more  self sufficient,
> and
> just pick things up or study by  themselves so that they don't need
> training
> in the first place.
> 
> Many people  can become  decent helpdesk folks. Few  can become  good
> senior
> sysadmins, such is life.
> (obviously most people on this list, are in the senior sysadmin
> category)
> 
> Marc
> -- 
> Microsoft is to operating systems & security ....
>                                       .... what McDonalds is to gourmet
> cooking
>   
> Home page: http://marc.merlins.org/   |   Finger marc_f at merlins.org for
> PGP key

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